93EXCivic wrote:Joe Gearin wrote: Automated car maintenance? Don't worry...... the hipsters at your local Apple store will be able to fix your iCar.....as long as they don't get their hands dirty......or have to rush to the hospital with a callous, or blister.
Duct tape -does-fix everything. This Super cub was attacked by a bear, some poly sheeting, two new tyres, and a couple cases of duct tape later, he was able to fly out of the wilds of Alaska into a civilized area to make real repairs
My uncle has a country place, that no one knows about...
My company has some contracts for automated highway, all the news stories with the self driving cars, etc... It's definitely coming.
As the cost of tech comes down, those features will increase, and that'll determine how fast. If you figure Moore's Law, we'll probably see mainstream use in 10-15 years, and pretty common in 25 years, at least in large populated areas.
And it'll be cheaper than mass transit upgrades - that's a huge cost, and mass transit doesn't go "everywhere". Auto drivers that switch between autonomous and self control and it's the best of both worlds.
We don't have the high gas prices and, except for the east coast, density and layout for effective mass transit upgrades on that scale, either.
I do wonder at what point the anachronistic "self driver" will become problematic for on road operation. Autopilot reaction times are much faster than any human controlled action, and thus the density for traffic will be much higher, following distances shorter, etc.. such that the "self drivers" will become a hazard. I think that's a LONG way off though, but I see it headed there at some point.
They didn't work as well as designed in this story. IIRC, it did involve terrorists blowing up the computers. Hmmm...I wonder if terrorist was a word when it was written?
mad_machine wrote:jimbbski wrote: A couple of posters have mentioned bike lanes, or the increase of biking for getting to work. That may work in some cities with wide open spaces but here in Chicago the only way they install bike lanes is to take away lanes from cars. This only add to congestion and slow traffic. Which may be what then want. Make it so bad that you do use Public Transit or bikes. Now I have a bike but have never considered using it to commute to work and at this point in my life I don't have to work. But even if I would I don't think I could of would consider doing that during the months or Dec-March. It snows in Chicago and they don't plow all that well and where do you think they put that snow, in the bike paths!I would bike to work, I am in good enough physical shape to easily handle the 10 mile trip with barely breaking a sweat.. it's the fact that I would sharing a road with people doing 20+ mph over the speed limit of 50mph that makes me not to even want to try it. I do not want to be that statistic
I would bike all over the place if if weren't for the inattentive sacks of meat driving.
In reply to rcutclif:
If you truly believe that the software of a plane, power plant or other currently computer assisted device is adequate perhaps you can also tell me why there are still pilots and power plant workers.....
Google has been testing their automated car for quite some time... it has officially been in 3 car accidents since I believe 2011... and didn't Elon Musk say that he believes that self driving will be illegal someday... Food for thought I must say.
itsarebuild wrote: In reply to rcutclif: If you truly believe that the software of a plane, power plant or other currently computer assisted device is adequate perhaps you can also tell me why there are still pilots and power plant workers.....
So you think the driver behind the wheel will do nothing? Most of the automated part will happen on the highway, during cruising situations- just like autopilot between take off and landing.
Seems quite similar to what I actually expect.
People often bring up planes, but they are assigned a particular heading and altitude that no one else is using.
Very, very different from I90 through Chicago. Or, for that matter, main street Mayberry on a Sunday afternoon.
alfadriver wrote: ....Why is it that people think that public transportation is an all or nothing thing? It's not for everyone, it's for enough people. If YOU pay for it, and your commute gets better, then you profit for it...
I rode a commuter train to work for 4 years and really liked it. When people would ask why they should support expanding transit when it didn't go to where they worked, I would point out that that every train carried about 700 people. So that's 700 cars that are not getting in your way.
When I was using the trains, I had all the benefits people talk about in terms of having commute time available to do something other than drive. It had a secondary benefit. I made some good friends. When you see the same people 30 minutes a day 5 days per week, you have time to get to know each other.
Am I the only one that thinks dropping an automated car thread on a motorsports enthusiast board may just be an epic piece of trolling? I suspect somewhere there's a hipster plucking at his beard, sipping a green tea and enjoying the carnage.
That said, I just don't see the public being willing for fork over the coin necessary to convert our current roadways to driverless or, worse yet, build a second, parallel system. But I guess, at one point, the notion that these new fangled "horseless carriages" would be adopted by the masses seemed pretty far-fetched too.
Automated cars; yet again city people will make life more difficult and expensive for rural America who will get zero benefit from it. No automatic car will ever be able to drive down the gravel road to my house because of the soft spots that change with the moisture in the ground, random wildlife, and SD snowstorms. Beyond that, if the road needs modifications for automatic cars it would bankrupt my county for just the paved roads, let alone gravel.
Traffic is something you only have to deal with in cities, and if you don't like it move. Those of us who don't live there shouldn't have to subsidize your convenience.
kazoospec wrote: Am I the only one that thinks dropping an automated car thread on a motorsports enthusiast board may just be an epic piece of trolling? I suspect somewhere there's a hipster plucking at his beard, sipping a green tea and enjoying the carnage. That said, I just don't see the public being willing for fork over the coin necessary to convert our current roadways to driverless or, worse yet, build a second, parallel system. But I guess, at one point, the notion that these new fangled "horseless carriages" would be adopted by the masses seemed pretty far-fetched too.
I question the intentional trolling aspect due to this same thread resurrecting itself over and over again. It is a novelty, nothing more, nothing less. I'd rather see the effort actually used to better mankind rather than make it even more dependant.....which I fear is the irony of the situation everyone misses.
As for me, I'm just going to change my name to Hank Scorpio, and wait until I can build Globex Corp to take over the eastern US. 
oldopelguy wrote: No automatic car will ever be able to drive down the gravel road to my house because of the soft spots that change with the moisture in the ground, random wildlife, and SD snowstorms.
I like to post this to emphasize that automations don't even need roads.
http://youtu.be/jV51BGIzkwU
kazoospec wrote: That said, I just don't see the public being willing for fork over the coin necessary to convert our current roadways to driverless or, worse yet, build a second, parallel system. But I guess, at one point, the notion that these new fangled "horseless carriages" would be adopted by the masses seemed pretty far-fetched too.
I don't see a radical change in the roadway system happening. What I do see happening is visual recognition software becoming good enough that the computer will essentially "see" the road and other cars and drive on it as a human would.
93EXCivic wrote: Also I don't know about you but my computers are about as reliable as an old Alfa. Actually that is unkind to old Alfas. Of coarse that might be because I am convinced a hammer fixes computers... As far as I can tell a reliable computer is as big a work of fiction as a unicorn.
I think it's just you. Mine are at least as good as modern German cars, some are as good as '90s Japanese cars. But I know exactly how to fix them.
rcutclif wrote: Plenty of aircraft that you can't even fly without the computer 'filling in the input gaps' for you. Meaning if there wasn't a computer to translate your push on the joystick to an incredibly complicated physical movement on many different control surfaces simultaneously, you (or any human) could never fly the craft. Possibly the earliest example would be the stealth fighter - in what, the 1960s?
Maybe even earlier - in the '50s the B-58 had a mechanical and hydraulic control blending system nicknamed the "three-bicycle wreck."
Riding in a self-driving car? Take comfort that Norton or Mcafee will keep it from getting hacked!
Will the car stop every time it needs a software patch?
GameboyRMH wrote:93EXCivic wrote: Also I don't know about you but my computers are about as reliable as an old Alfa. Actually that is unkind to old Alfas. Of coarse that might be because I am convinced a hammer fixes computers... As far as I can tell a reliable computer is as big a work of fiction as a unicorn.I think it's just you. Mine are at least as good as modern German cars, some are as good as '90s Japanese cars. But I know exactly how to fix them.
There is also a difference between open-access consumer computers and embedded system computers. The latter are harder for people to berk with and tend to be more stable and reliable.
In reply to oldopelguy:
You are correct. It is possible we are on the cusp of a new era of urbanization in which a rural lifestyle will become increasingly unfeasible to most for economic reasons related to a new technological paradigm. I can see both good and bad in that prospect.
I expect the self-driving revolution to start with interstate trucking, not personal cars and not downtown inner city driving. If I were a young long haul trucker I'd be a bit worried about becoming obsolete before my working years were finished.
Whether this is a troll thread or not does not concern me. Nobody is forcing us to participate. I for one don't mind driving automation as long as there's an opt-out. In a sense, it might add to my enjoyment of automobiles by virtue of removing the most drudging elements. If I could read, surf GRM or what not, while sitting in traffic, it won't bug me nearly as bad. Then when I get behind the wheel with my full senses engaged it will be for a true enthusiast experience.
As for urban Vs. rural, it's interesting how for a time it was a popular meme that guys would be doing tech work from distant locales, since you didn't need the traditional office space to do your work. Yet in certain ways it's gone the opposite direction. Programmers are stacked up like bees in a hive in San Francisco, which tells me two things: first, that people like and profit from being around other people. Especially younger people who are inherently more social. And second, most people need that energy and aren't disciplined enough to tie themselves to a desk without a structured environment around them.
But that's getting off topic. Rural living will always have its place. My only concern is that its become more hostile than it used to be, between the drug faction, the anti-government types and other anti-socials. There are many rural places where I feel more ill-at-ease than in the city - and I live in Oakland, CA.
oldopelguy wrote: Automated cars; yet again city people will make life more difficult and expensive for rural America who will get zero benefit from it. No automatic car will ever be able to drive down the gravel road to my house because of the soft spots that change with the moisture in the ground, random wildlife, and SD snowstorms. Beyond that, if the road needs modifications for automatic cars it would bankrupt my county for just the paved roads, let alone gravel. Traffic is something you only have to deal with in cities, and if you don't like it move. Those of us who don't live there shouldn't have to subsidize your convenience.
I think that you're dead wrong. In time, a well-programmed AWD vehicle with a host of sensors and what not should be able to navigate rural conditions more effectively than any human without significant WRC experience. Further, automated vehicles will not be needing embedded elements in roadways. They'll have virtually all that stuff onboard. Lastly, nobody's going to take your traditional vehicles away any more than they'll take your guns. Let's not go all rural paranoia here. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I appreciate most of your posts. That one just rubbed me the wrong way.
I think human-driven vehicles will eventually be treated much as horses are today on the street...they'll still be legal but very few will want to use them, so they'll just be an odd curiosity you sometimes have to slow down for when you're driving out in the countryside. Most people want their car to be safe above all else and autonomous cars will be VERY safe compared to one driven by the average Joe.
I don't find driving on the street to be enjoyable on average, people who do usually live in one of a few geographic locations with "nice" roads that aren't gridlocked most of the time.
Kreb wrote: As for urban Vs. rural, it's interesting how for a time it was a popular meme that guys would be doing tech work from distant locales, since you didn't need the traditional office space to do your work. Yet in certain ways it's gone the opposite direction. Programmers are stacked up like bees in a hive in San Francisco, which tells me two things: first, that people like and profit from being around other people. Especially younger people who are inherently more social. And second, most people need that energy and aren't disciplined enough to tie themselves to a desk without a structured environment around them.
To me all it says is that employers don't like the concept of telecommuting because of some vestigial Taylorist attitudes. For many workers there's no other reason to need them to physically show up in an office. If your theory were correct, companies should be clamoring to save money by hiring remote workers and any who crave social interaction at their jobs/aren't disciplined enough to work on their own would have trouble finding employment. That situation would be good for me, living in the ass-end of nowhere in terms of employment.
Kreb wrote:oldopelguy wrote: Automated cars; yet again city people will make life more difficult and expensive for rural America who will get zero benefit from it. No automatic car will ever be able to drive down the gravel road to my house because of the soft spots that change with the moisture in the ground, random wildlife, and SD snowstorms. Beyond that, if the road needs modifications for automatic cars it would bankrupt my county for just the paved roads, let alone gravel. Traffic is something you only have to deal with in cities, and if you don't like it move. Those of us who don't live there shouldn't have to subsidize your convenience.I think that you're dead wrong. In time, a well-programmed AWD vehicle with a host of sensors and what not should be able to navigate rural conditions more effectively than any human without significant WRC experience. Further, automated vehicles will not be needing embedded elements in roadways. They'll have virtually all that stuff onboard. Lastly, nobody's going to take your traditional vehicles away any more than they'll take your guns. Let's not go all rural paranoia here. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I appreciate most of your posts. That one just rubbed me the wrong way.
There is SO much about rural living that city dwellers will never understand.
I still have 2 shops in my town that only work on carbureted cars, believe it or not.
Rural residents will probably never need a "well-programmed AWD vehicle with a host of sensors". They will never be able to afford it, nor maintain it.
I live in truck country, yet no one I know can afford a new truck, no less the modern miracle you are describing.
There are ALREADY the penalties oldopelguy described for living in a rural community. The first one is they have to drive old crap, because the city dwellers have pushed up the price point.
The advantages of less traffic, easier commute, lower accident rate, etc. etc all become a bit irrelevant when you look at a rural lifestyle.
So yeah, I am fascinated by the possibilities, and excited about what is coming. But don't discount the down side for people whose lifestyle you don't understand.
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