The Miata RF is here

mtn wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Stock for stock, you want the Miata. We'll see if we can sharpen up the drivetrain on the Fiat.

Nah--stock for stock, I like the looks of the Fiat better, and if I'm going to care *that* much about performance I'll get an NA or NB. Or Corvette.

But the ND has much higher performance than the NA or NB. Unless you're talking mods - in which case that's kind of a difficult argument to have. It's the age-old used vs new comparison, which is not always helpful.

Isn't the Fiat a tune away from a lot more power though seeing as it is a turbo motor?

That's what the internet keeps telling us. I'm more worried about the response. It's a laggy little bastard.

But you'll notice I specified "stock for stock". That's not an accident.

Keith Tanner wrote: That's what the internet keeps telling us. I'm more worried about the response. It's a laggy little bastard.

Did you ever drive it at sea level? If so, how was the response there?

I have not, but I have driven turbo cars at altitude before Note that the road tests (conducted at sea level) are saying much the same thing.

Keith Tanner wrote: I have not, but I have driven turbo cars at altitude before Note that the road tests (conducted at sea level) are saying much the same thing.

Sure, but some turbo systems seem to be more sensitive to altitude effects on boost response than others do. The road tests would seem to rule it out though.

dculberson wrote:

mtn wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Stock for stock, you want the Miata. We'll see if we can sharpen up the drivetrain on the Fiat.

Nah--stock for stock, I like the looks of the Fiat better, and if I'm going to care *that* much about performance I'll get an NA or NB. Or Corvette.

But the ND has much higher performance than the NA or NB. Unless you're talking mods - in which case that's kind of a difficult argument to have. It's the age-old used vs new comparison, which is not always helpful.

I guess it comes down to that if I care "that much" about performance, I don't care about stock--and realistically the only way I care about performance is on the track, whether it is autocross or other. And if I'm going to do that, I don't want to spend a ton of money on a new car--I want to drive the new car every day.

Keith Tanner wrote:

mtn wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Stock for stock, you want the Miata. We'll see if we can sharpen up the drivetrain on the Fiat.

Nah--stock for stock, I like the looks of the Fiat better, and if I'm going to care *that* much about performance I'll get an NA or NB. Or Corvette.

It's not just performance. The Fiat is a cruiser, the Miata is...well, it's a Miata.

I guess that is the thing--if I want performance, I'll go used and modify. If I want a new car it will be a cruiser.

**Yeah, I know that is an unfair argument since it is apples and oranges. And not exactly sensical even taking that into account. But seeing as most anything I get will likely get $500-$2000 thrown at the suspension anyways, it does make it a different ballgame. At the end of the day, I really, really dig the looks of the Fiat and the RF--but I really, really love a true convertible.

I've driven both the Fiat and the ND on track on identical suspension, wheels, tires and brakes. The ND was in its element, the Fiat was not. The Fiat will be very popular for those who join drive-to-eat clubs and never wear a helmet. It's a Sunday afternoon mellow drive car, not an early Sunday morning burn some turns before church car

I love the styling of the ND, but the Fiat has a horrible looking front end.

In reply to mtn: the mag (or some other magazine) tested a STR prepped NC vs. the ND Miata in an autocross, and the ND was still superior. From what I remember, braking and turning at the same time was much better on the ND vs. the STR NC.

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: I love the styling of the ND, but the Fiat has a horrible looking front end.

while I am biased (I still have an original 124 spider) it's the front headlights on the Miata that drive me away from it. Far too small compared to the grill area.

Now if I could get a Fiat with the RF treatment.. that would be perfect

Keith Tanner wrote: I've driven both the Fiat and the ND on track on identical suspension, wheels, tires and brakes. The ND was in its element, the Fiat was not.

Interesting. Just to clarify, are your comments down to the Fiat's power band and the extra 200lbs, or is it more than that?

The most recent issue of car and driver has a review between the 124 Abarth and the ND. They liked the ND a LOT better than the Fiat and more or less echoed Keith's various comments on the forum.

racerdave600 wrote: If you've ever raced a mid engine car, you definitely know what a petty bar is! They add a lot of strength, but there are no more passengers at that point.

If you make the Petty bar a bolt in affair, you could take passengers on the street, bolt the bar into it when you want to go on the track. Even if the bar is gong to occupy space where the passenger seat needs to be, seats come out pretty quitck. Have your cake and eat it too

Snrub wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: I've driven both the Fiat and the ND on track on identical suspension, wheels, tires and brakes. The ND was in its element, the Fiat was not.

Interesting. Just to clarify, are your comments down to the Fiat's power band and the extra 200lbs, or is it more than that?

The Fiat is 100 lbs heavier than the ND, almost exactly. Every single one of those pounds lands on the nose, and you can feel it. We had to crank up the rear roll stiffness to get it to turn in, and once that was done the very soft throttle response meant the car didn't come off the corner very hard and was difficult to adjust on the throttle. Every driver that was in the car has extensive track time in turbo cars, BTW, including other cars on that same day. We weren't taking lap times, but the ND was definitely quicker. On a big track, it might be less of an issue. Our small track is like a fast autox.

The Petty bar in our NC is a bolt-in setup that doesn't require the passenger seat to be removed. But once you can't take a passenger on track, you discover how often you want to take a passenger on track! That's why we haven't had the Petty bolted in for years.

Might just be me, but I see a bit of Opel GT there, replace C pillar with a glass fastback/hatch. Looks like a great alternative to the FRS/BRZ twins. I'll be looking for a "fun car" in the next year or so and thats when these should be hitting the pre-owned lots.

Keith Tanner wrote: More pics.