What’s sleek, low and offers a ton of power? The Tesla Model 3.
Sure, you may not see it at the 24 Hours of Le Mans (or many 15-minute races, for that matter), but thanks to strong handling and virtually instantaneous power, this EV has become a force in settings as diverse as local au…
Exciting to see what the future holds for EV race cars, as it seems like we're just now scratching the surface of mods and upgrades.
Seems like a great tool for trying to win at high level autocross or other specific events (like Pikes Peak) but seems like it's still a terrible tool for general enthusiast fun with cars.
I can't imagine anyone would prefer this experience to the typical 100+ miles of flat out lapping that you can get at a typical track day in a tradition car car: Here’s how Chang typically manages his day with the Tesla Model 3: “If we’re going for the fastest lap, we do two sessions in a day–one in the morning (we’ll get three laps) and one towards the end of the day, after it fully charges. If you don’t mind having a lot less power, with a 50% charge you could do probably four laps before it pulls all of the power because of the temperatures.”
The other issue, that wasn't really mentioned in the article, is that a lot of the track events I sign up for have a blanket "No EVs" rule. For example: https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events/2002697-track-night-2023-new-jersey-motorsports-park-april-26
CrashDummy said:The other issue, that wasn't really mentioned in the article, is that a lot of the track events I sign up for have a blanket "No EVs" rule. For example: https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events/2002697-track-night-2023-new-jersey-motorsports-park-april-26
Weird, I've never seen a "no EV" rule at any of the events I've been to. I wonder if it's a regional thing? Or maybe just SCCA being conservative?
As for the small number of ideal laps thing, to an extent that's true of any car. Qualifying or TT sessions, the fast guys will do 2 or 3 laps and then pit, because once the tires get hot they'll never go as fast. Mix that with the track's tendency to get slower in the afternoon and you've got at most 4-6 laps to do a fast time.
For non-competitive track day fun, I see model 3s at the track all the time. They do usually wind up missing a session in order to make enough time to go into town and recharge at lunch, but otherwise they run as much of the day as anyone else.
CrashDummy said:Seems like a great tool for trying to win at high level autocross or other specific events (like Pikes Peak) but seems like it's still a terrible tool for general enthusiast fun with cars.
I can't imagine anyone would prefer this experience to the typical 100+ miles of flat out lapping that you can get at a typical track day in a tradition car car: Here’s how Chang typically manages his day with the Tesla Model 3: “If we’re going for the fastest lap, we do two sessions in a day–one in the morning (we’ll get three laps) and one towards the end of the day, after it fully charges. If you don’t mind having a lot less power, with a 50% charge you could do probably four laps before it pulls all of the power because of the temperatures.”
The other issue, that wasn't really mentioned in the article, is that a lot of the track events I sign up for have a blanket "No EVs" rule. For example: https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events/2002697-track-night-2023-new-jersey-motorsports-park-april-26
My thoughts as well. I often wonder if it was really a smart choice for me to buy an ICE-powered dual-duty car in 2021 (I most often have this thought any time I see how much speed a Mini SE picks up on a straightaway), but this article says "yes." Right now on my 86, there are no artificial limiters in the ECU I can't flash out of the way (Rev limiter? Bumped up and smoothed out. Top speed limiter? Safely tucked away somewhere north of 400kph). The only thing that causes any performance dropoff between going onto an opening lap and running out of gas is tire heat, and I think my next set will fix that.
Hopefully not too far into the future there will be more modder-friendly EVs with better cooling and less weight.
Mods to make it into a race car: remove half the weight... well that's not going to happen. Given that, enormous brakes, unless of course it can't run long enough to overheat them.
I remember a review of the Plaid model, with the reviewers saying the power plant was about 10X what the brakes could handle, and that any racing other than drag racing could put it in limp mode due to hot brakes, or in a ditch.
Meanwhile, I've seen a C5 Corvette overheat in about 5 laps of our local track. Not all cars are bulletproof track cars right out of the box, even performance cars :)
EVs have characteristics that make them difficult to beat in certain types of competition. ICEs have characteristics that make them difficult to beat in certain types of competition. Get the right tool for the job.
While I'm not sure I'd call a Model 3 "sleek and low" - more like "dorky" - this article is a good insight into what it takes to make one work better in competition, just like all the articles on how to make JG's Corvette work reliably in a track environment.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:CrashDummy said:The other issue, that wasn't really mentioned in the article, is that a lot of the track events I sign up for have a blanket "No EVs" rule. For example: https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events/2002697-track-night-2023-new-jersey-motorsports-park-april-26
Weird, I've never seen a "no EV" rule at any of the events I've been to. I wonder if it's a regional thing? Or maybe just SCCA being conservative?
I bet it's safety/insurance related. EV fires are a whole different animal.
Njmp also has state troopers there to give you tickets if you cause an infraction.
They will also get mad and make you use a different fueling rig if it isn't a dot approved gasoline (red) jug....
Ask me how I know.
kb58 said:Mods to make it into a race car: remove half the weight... well that's not going to happen. Given that, enormous brakes, unless of course it can't run long enough to overheat them.
Au contraire, mon frere. Solid state batteries might make that a reality.
In reply to BAMF :
Solid state batteries are the 100 mpg carburetor of the EV world. We'll see if Toyota can follow through with their claim that they'll be in production in 2025. Toyota was also leading the charge (har har) for hydrogen fuel, of course...
BAMF said:kb58 said:Mods to make it into a race car: remove half the weight... well that's not going to happen. Given that, enormous brakes, unless of course it can't run long enough to overheat them.
Au contraire, mon frere. Solid state batteries might make that a reality.
Sorry, I assumed that we're discussing present-day Teslas that people have now, not some future version.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Well said. I would expand on that by saying not all cars are 'street ready' - so many production cars come with inadequate brakes for aggressive street use, let alone good enough for track use. I can name off a handful of cars I have owned that had really pitiful oem brakes. Virtually all subarus i have owned including my recently departed wrx were weak in this area, my first brz had the brembo brake package and while it stopped well the factory package was so flawed it soured me on brembo. The new brz i bought last year has really decent brakes for street use. If i ever do a track day in it, i will do a fluid change beforehand and call it good...the braking inadequacies are so common across virtually every brand except Porsche and BMW that I tend to see brake upgrades for track use a requirement for everything except the real premium brands. I doubt for example, a Dodge Viper or an Acura NSX or Nissan GTR would need upgrades but I have no direct experience with any of these cars to know for sure. Virtually everything else comes with some degree of bad in the braking arena.
Many production cars have virtually unflashable ECUs. Virtually all NA subarus come with no possibility for performance improvements thru reflashing the factory ECU...the turbocharged engines can be reflashed of course. Or at least this was true until the EPA got wind of all the diesel and turbo gas engine reprogramming hardware available and levied a bunch of stiff fines. Cobb notably caved and removed many programming options available thru their access port, and other manufacturers of tuning solutions have followed suit. This has been a great source of frustration in my desire to get more out of the stock programming. With the EPA having stepped in and pulled the teeth out of many c0mpanies support of the enthusiasts quest for more power thru remapping and tuning it makes what is already difficult that much more challenging. With no viable business willing to go toe to toe with our meddling government in the tuning of flashable ECUs, enthusiasts have much less aftermarket support than they did even 5 years ago. I am not expecting this situation to get better given how things progress (or retard) once Uncle Sam gets involved. I wonder what kind of legal issues will present themselves to further impede our 'need for speed?' Of course, us motorsport types will continue to push the boundaries and do what we can but it is a bit like being in an ass-kicking contest strapped to a wheelchair. Perhaps part of this is in fact off-topic, but the legal issues will continue to be a factor going forward and that's the elephant in the room no one seems to be willing to address.
There has been lots of adult conversation about the EPA crackdown on emissions deletes in this forum.
"...With no viable business willing to go toe to toe with our meddling government..."
In the 1960s, every fall in SoCal the air would turn brown, my eyes would sting, and the air smelled like the next door neighbor was tarring his roof. Don't miss it. I get a reminder of that sometimes on the freeway, typically on a Friday when people drive their pre-emission cars to work. You can smell them a good quarter mile ahead. In this specific case, "meddling" is something we can all - literally - live with.
A model 3 starts at 3800lbs. Lots of newer quick cars are in that range. I have to imagine it's a bit challenging to use for certain motorsports situations, but it seems like a reasonable choice for a few.
Didn't the LS3 have a oil temp issues. Didn't the C6 ZR1 and C7 Z06 have woefully undersized cooling? We had a bunch of recent discussion about the BRZ/FRS/86 oiling recently, etc.
I read recently for street use ICE vehicles have 20x the risk of fire as EVs.
ICE vehicles have always had a higher fire risk, but once the fire starts in an ICE vehicle it's much easier to put out. A lithium battery fire carries its own oxygen and can reignite itself after apparently being extinguished, often the closest thing you can do to putting it out is to submerge it so that the energy can bleed off as heat over a few days while keeping the temperature too low for combustion.
The cooling issues with the older Tesla powertrains are worse than what most ICE vehicles have because 1) A major factor is that there's little coolant flow to the motor, especially the parts that generate the most heat and 2) To make things worse the motor and inverter are sharing coolant through the diff they're both bolted to which also acts as a coolant manifold for them. To put this into ICE terms it would be like an engine with severely undersized and poorly designed coolant passages and a DCT that shares coolant with it through the bellhousing, where the only coolant fittings are, and then all this heat gets shared with the air-to-water intercooler too (representing the battery pack).
I think rerouting the coolant to give the motor its own radiator would require a custom diff housing, and even that would only band-aid the motor's inherent cooling issues. The good news is that manufacturers have caught on and performance EVs are coming with much better cooling these days.
I daily a M3P and was massively impressed with the modded one that ran at the 23 GRM Challenge. It's been a wonderful daily that emberasses fast cars regularly. Thus far I have only upgraded to lighter weight wider OZ 3 piece wheels to drop weight and add width for 285's which make it much more engaging. I'll probably give it a go at Autox in between runs in my rabbit this year to see what it can do, despite the soft suspension.
From the article, “They have soft rubber bearings up front and spherical bearings in the rear,” Anis notes. “There’s a lot of compliance and camber loss, with very little camber gain in front. Change the front bushings out and you’ll get laser-sharp feel and better connection to the road.”
Maybe this explains why David Marcus, driver of the Solo Nationals autocross winner said he hated the way it drove. It was Street class which doesn't allow camber or bushings changes, though you can do shocks.
Since then, and with input from that same driver, SCCA first moved the Model 3 up two classes to Super Street (think GT3!) then back to A Street, and now has them split mostly between A and Super depending on "model year". I'm told it's because the ~2024 has even more power, and adjustable shocks included. This has changed already this racing season so may change yet more!
Super Street: Tesla, Model S AWD including Plaid 2014-2024, and Roadster, and Model 3 (all) 2024
A Street: Model 3, 2014-2023, Model Y all years
F Street (ponycars) Model S 2012-2014
Super Street Prepared (limited prep) Model S, 3, etc.
EVX (electric vehicle experimental class, has "street touring" suspension and brake mods with limits) Model S (2012-23) Model 3 (All, incl. Performance) (2018-23) Model X (2016-23) Model Y (2020-23) Roadster (all) (2008-13)
I'm seeing 3's, and an S, at local autocross events here in Cali.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
I have heard of it for track days and such. The American Motorcycle Association is also being faced with electric bikes and is struggling with classing, and with safety. Many promoters won't allow them due to fire extinguishing issues - a YouTube firefighter/EMT celebrity recently said that an ICE car fire takes a couple of thousand gallons of water, while an EV takes 40,000. And nobody wants to have the e-bikes at indoor events where the fire>smoke issue could result in evacuating a stadium, which isn't a problem with car events. Yet. But I am betting that someone is developing a monster truck! With 10000 watts of sound effects added.
Tesla mod to make it a track car: sell, and buy an ICE car. 
In reply to ddavidv :
And depending on the event, prepare to lose :) That would be the case at our local time trials, where a Model 3 Performance - driven to the track from Wyoming - wipes the floor with a turbo Exocet on Hoosiers and a supercharged Mustang trailer queen on enormous slicks.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
We had someone who rallycrossed a Model 3. It turns out that they defy physics on gravel and dirt as much as they do on asphalt and concrete 
Sloppy thick pea gravel:
Keith Tanner said:In reply to ddavidv :
And depending on the event, prepare to lose :) That would be the case at our local time trials, where a Model 3 Performance - driven to the track from Wyoming - wipes the floor with a turbo Exocet on Hoosiers and a supercharged Mustang trailer queen on enormous slicks.
Yeah, the shorter the event the better the EV will do. Drag racing, autocross, time trials, land speed record are all pretty short runs. Sprint racing in the middle, then endurance racing and things like the Baja 1000 or Dakar will likely be combustion-powered for a long time.
You'll need to log in to post.
