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In reply to Rustspecs13:

How reliable has the Porsche 944 been for him?

tuna55 wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

96DXCivic wrote:

Platinum90 wrote: MkIII Supra has better out of the box comfort and power than any listed, reliability is good, and aftermarket is better than anything listed barring the civic.

How well does it handle?

It does weigh 3600lbs if that's any indication.

Wikipedia has it listed at just over 3300, which is pretty normal for that size of car. It's also one of the only rwd cars of the era that has sla front and rear. I may just be defending it because I want one.

Yeah, they aren't light by any means, however, like I said, the aftermarket is huge (I do wish someone made some FRP or carbon fenders that didn't have to be imported from Japan). I am aiming to get mine to around 2700 pounds when all is said and done. Its already sub 3000.

The lightest ones are the Pre 89 coupes. Targas are heavier and way more flexy.

Again, FWIW, 944 seem to be dead reliable when they are taken care of. Clutches are a pain to change, and the timing belt job can be pretty pricey, but I have seen examples in good shape running well above 200,000 miles

The poster formally known as 96DXCivic wrote: In reply to SillyImportRacer: I was kidding about the Nova. As cool as it is, it is a bit gas hungry.

The ambulance motor most likely doesn't help either - I doubt that's a hi performance motor...

The poster formally known as 96DXCivic wrote: What about a Toyota AE86?

If you're anywhere where cars rust, good luck in finding one.

Around here (aka "Out West") the main decent ones seem to be in SoCal, but you're looking at $4k-$5k for most ones worth having (on an open-ended scale, of course). There are also a lot of bad ones about...

Don't forget, if it's a hatch you're also paying Initial-D tax.

the escort GT would probably be the coolest and most fun to drive out of all of those cars you mentioned...but if you were really wanting to do something to stand out and have people go WTF? find a Ford Escort EXP turbo hatch back

http://www.trombinoscar.com/fordmodernes/fd830202.jpg

the possibilities are endless 300 hp ? awd junk yard parts galore and the uniqueness of a mountain lion in the suburbs

96DXCivic wrote: Ok so of coarse, me being me started looking for cars last night. And I came up with two lists of vehicles one I feel pretty sure about and one I am not confident about. The list of cars I feel good about. Mazda MX3 GS, Honda Civic, 90-92 Toyota Celica, BMW 318TI. The other list. Porsche 944 (reliablity, parts cost), Pontiac Fiero (fun to drive?, reliablity, two seats), Alfa Romeo 164 (reliablity, parts cost, fun to drive?), Alfa Romeo Milano (reliablity, parts cost), BMW E30 (doesn't really turn my crank), MKIII Supra (doesn't really turn my crank), Miata (convertible, two seats), G-body Elky (fun to drive?), First generation Mazda MX6 Turbo (reliablity), Ford Escort GT (fun to drive?, it is still a Ford Escort), 2nd gen Mazda RX7, Nissan 240SX (drift tax, truck engine)

I own 4 of these. You've already gotten a basic rundown of a couple of them in your other thread.

First off, don't even worry about the MX6 Turbo reliability. They are insanely reliable, mainly due to being overbuilt to the extreme. Put it this way, when i bought my car, the electronically adjustable in-cabin suspension still worked. The factory subwoofer still worked. The oscillating center air vents (BALLER!!!!) still work. The hvac is all electronic motors for mixing, there's no cables. Sounds awful, right? Nope. It still works. Oh, and the trunk is enormous.

About the worst thing that will happen is that the stock turbo will fail, or you might blow a head gasket. Head gasket is like... a 3 hour job on one of these, and replacing the stock turbo is an oppurtunity for a cheap upgrade. (Tbird hybrid or other)

The Escort GT: Honestly, i'd only consider one of these over the other three i'm going through only from a cost perspective. Yes, it's the lightest thing here, yes it's fun to drive and very tossable, but the interior is beyond awful, and the seating position sucks. Hard. The motor is fun, though. The transmissions aren't the strongest thing in the world, and the rear arms a tiny. It's just not built as solid as the others. They are CHEAP, and CHEAP to repair/upgrade, though. Also unfortunately, they aren't as easy to work on as you would expect, either, at least in stock form. Engine bay is way more cramped than anything with a motor that tiny has a right to be. They also rust pretty badly. The rear wing falls off, etc etc etc etc. The headlights are horrible, and it doesn't get the best MPG out of the group, as surprising as that may be. It IS fun, and it IS cheap, though.

MX3 GS: Again, even though the stock motor is fun.... come out to Indy and get one already swapped with a KLZE for $2500. And then let me drive it before you leave. These are solid cars. They've heavier than you would expect, but still very nimble. You'll be shifting A LOT, it's a very tight transmission, but it's also a great feeling transmission, so you won't hate it. The brakes are great, it's an extremely stiff chassis, and the interior is pretty decent. More-so if you get a later one. Factory stereo isn't horrible. But, because of the gearing, don't expect a whole lot more than 28-30mpg on the highway. But the noise they make (even with the stock 1.8) is incredible. There's decent aftermarket for these.

90-93 Celica: Don't bother with the ST, you'll hate it. In my opinion, the best FWD 5th gen celica is the 92-93 GT Coupe. It's tighter, it's lighter, and arguably looks the best. If you can get away without a hatch, it's the way to go. If you MUST have a hatch, don't do what i did. Get a GTS. Yes, they're heavier. But with that you get: Better interior, probably a better stereo (System 10 sound amazing), and the ability to fit absurdly MASSIVE tires under the car. (Shares the widebody with the AllTrac.) My GT hatch gets 34mpg combined, so MPG is pretty good. Suspension aftermarket is there, you don't need brakes aftermarket besides pads, the brakes are ridiculously strong. If you break a transmission on one of these things, you're doing it wrong. The motors last forever, though they aren't the sportiest things out there, even though they make nice low-midrange power. (Well, as nice as 135hp can ever be.) Not much motor aftermarket out there, which is just as well, because the old adage about polishing a turd is true.

Now, you'll notice i keep saying 92-93, instead of 90-93. The reason behind that is yes, there was a power bump. Paper will tell you that it's only 5hp. Butt dyno shows it as quite a bit more. Revised cams, better top end, and it just seems... happier. The 92-93 shifter is shorter, the bumpers and taillights look better, and you're less likely to find disgusting interior colors. Brakes are also bigger on the 92-93 GTs.

If i had to rank these four for DD duties, with a dash of fun/autox:

1) Celica
2) MX6
3) MX3
4) EGT

The MX3 and MX6 could be considered a tie, it's down to personal preference. I'd rather work on an MX6, but the MX3 handles better, MX6 is faster.

Strictly motor rankings in terms of what's best matched to the car:
1) MX3
2) EGT
3) Celica
4) MX6

MX6 ranks low because the motor doesn't rev, and that's a whole lot of torque for the front wheels to handle. I like it. Others might not.

Reliability:
1) Celica
2) The others.

MPG:
1) Celica
2) EGT
3) MX3
4) MX6

That said, i still get high 20s with the MX6 combined, but around town, probably low 20s.

Handling:
1) Celica
2) MX3
3) EGT
4) MX6

That's pretty subjective, obviously. There isn't really a BAD choice in the bunch.

I realize all these rankings make the MX6 look pretty bad, but... it's not. Drive one or a Probe GT if you can before you really rule it out.

Also: Don't count out a 2nd gen MX6 LS. They're peanuts cheap, and they're GREAT cars.

Thanks for all the advice. I have either stopped considering or moved all the cars from the not sure list except the Alfa Romeos. I really like them and I have heard plenty of people talk about theirs being reliable but Alfas reputation had to of come from somewhere.

In reply to 93celicaGT2:

If all the electronic parts aren't working then, how hard are they to replace? Also how well does the electronically adjustable system work? Is it easy to swap to aftermarket stuff?

The poster formally known as 96DXCivic wrote: In reply to 93celicaGT2: If all the electronic parts aren't working then, how hard are they to replace? Also how well does the electronically adjustable system work? Is it easy to swap to aftermarket stuff?

If the suspension doesn't work, the don't bother fixing it. Just swap to aftermarket. It's just like any other car. Tirerack will tell you otherwise, but they're lying. Just remove the motors, and put normal struts/springs in there. GR2s are available, and they're cheap.

The sub, if it doesn't work, you aren't really missing much. It's hard to wire up with aftermarket deck anyways, and you'll want one to get CDs.

The hvac controls, if they fail, they're easy to replace, and easy to find on the forums/junkyards.

The factory suspension works pretty well, actually. If you can find one in good working order, just throw some swaybars on it and see how you like it. In "Sport" setting, the struts are actually a bit stiffer than GR2s from what i'm told. I can't really comment on that directly since i ripped my entire setup out for 2nd gen MX6 GR2s and Megan Racing springs, so i can't really compare directly.

Almost forgot, since i don't have it, but these cars also have an electronically controlled steering rack, that you can adjust with a switch under the driver's seat, to control feedback i guess. I haven't really heard of that failing. But if you get one, leave it on the car, and do not depower the rack. The rack is an ugly-looking sonofabitch, and i've heard that they can do strange things when de-powered. I've been lucky on mine so far, but i'm actively sourcing a European Market manual rack for if/when it starts to get sketchy. Just... don't de-power it and you'll be fine.

Oh, and btw, Cusco makes camber plates for these things.

Did i mention that these have some of the best seats, ever?

I've got an '86 944 that I am thinking seriously about selling. It is a decent driver with a new clutch and a full water pump/timing belt service in the last 10K miles.

I love the car but I have four cars and I am shopping for a fifth, so something has to go.