This Honda Fit is a piece of E36 M3!

Poop I stopped reading at page four.

You need a brand spanking new transmission from Honda. Not a refurbed, not a used, etc. You have a 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. The transmission was ruined by the mistakes of one of their techs. In no way shape or form is this your fault or responsibility. This dealership needs to suck it up and replace it under warranty as it should be. Keep pestering Honda NA and the Service Manager. The Service Manager is giving you a load of crap with the 20k mile one, he's trying to save his dealer the paperwork and money involved with the warranty work. Much easier for him to find a used one, foot the bill, pay his tech and be done with it.

Sucks you have to go through with this but E36 M3 this is your car and fight for your E36 M3.

I went through the same nonsense with Subaru. Copper chunks in the oil, three dealers later none of them would touch it with a 100ft pole and all told me that "When she blows we'll replace it no problem." Subaru North America stood behind their dealers and stated the same. At least the bullE36 M3 flowed consistently. I got something out of them which helped for a new Honda Civic Si, but I got somewhere with enough pestering.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Datsun1500: I think factory warranty supersedes that if the car is still in warranty, though with the way Honda has been going downhill since 2000 or so, who knows anymore.

Warranty on a free replacement part last until the end of the original warranty period. If the car has a 1 year warranty, and the trans is replaced on day 364 under warranty, then fails on day 367, it is not covered. If you paid for the trans, then the one year warranty applies to the part.

At least thats the way it used to be.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

Sounds right.

Mr_Estrotica wrote: Having never owned a new vehicle or one with a warranty, I'm unsure of the answer to question that I'm about to pose. If the transmission had failed on it's own accord at a mere 32k, in what condition would the replacement unit be? Would it be remanufactured, new, or a unit with less mileage than it's predecessor (as you are due to receive)? I wouldn't expect much more beyond what the replacement would be in a standard "it dun broked i'sself" scenario, especially from what sounds like a real E36 M3hole of a dealership.

If it wasa manual and not rebuildable, it would be new. If it was something like a single bearing or synchro or shift fork, they would replace that. Loss if fluid is automatically a new one. If it was an automatic, Honda has Warranty remans with a 3/36 warranty.

Datsun1500 wrote: So the used one and the new one are warrantied to 60k miles. Why the push for the new one? Everyone is pushing for the dealer to give home something better than what he had. If they wrecked the car, would they have to give him a brand new car? I'm just saying if I was the dealer and you started demanding a new one, and only a new one, I would tell you to prove it was my fault, and that would be tough for you to do.

A.) They've already admitted fault.

B.) If the trans had died of natural causes, Honda would not install a used transmission.

C.) After selling an unneeded service, improperly DOING that unneeded service and then jerking the customer around for almost 2 days before giving him word and not offering to pay the rental for their screw up, the LEAST they can do is pony up the other $490 and install a new OEM trans.

DirtyBird222 wrote: Poop I stopped reading at page four. You need a brand spanking new transmission from Honda. Not a refurbed, not a used, etc. You have a 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. The transmission was ruined by the mistakes of one of their techs. In no way shape or form is this your fault or responsibility. This dealership needs to suck it up and replace it under warranty as it should be. Keep pestering Honda NA and the Service Manager. The Service Manager is giving you a load of crap with the 20k mile one, he's trying to save his dealer the paperwork and money involved with the warranty work. Much easier for him to find a used one, foot the bill, pay his tech and be done with it. Sucks you have to go through with this but E36 M3 this is your car and fight for your E36 M3. I went through the same nonsense with Subaru. Copper chunks in the oil, three dealers later none of them would touch it with a 100ft pole and all told me that "When she blows we'll replace it no problem." Subaru North America stood behind their dealers and stated the same. At least the bullE36 M3 flowed consistently. I got something out of them which helped for a new Honda Civic Si, but I got somewhere with enough pestering.

This can not be warranty work from American Honda. This is an internal issue. If they tried to file a warranty claim with Honda on this, once that trans was recieved and inspected, they would get charged back the the entire claim (parts, labor, shipping cost of bad part for inspection) and would be placed under watch for more fraudulent claims. The more of these they see, they get audited.

This is coming out of the pocket of the dealership directly. It has nothing to do with American Honda at this point.

I'm actually a little surprised that there are usable used Honda Fit transmissions out there. Last fall, I was looking for a used hood and a set of wheels for a 2009 Fit and they seemed to be nonexistent. I suppose that a Honda dealer might have a few more connections than I do, though.

Streetwiseguy wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Datsun1500: I think factory warranty supersedes that if the car is still in warranty, though with the way Honda has been going downhill since 2000 or so, who knows anymore.

Warranty on a free replacement part last until the end of the original warranty period. If the car has a 1 year warranty, and the trans is replaced on day 364 under warranty, then fails on day 367, it is not covered. If you paid for the trans, then the one year warranty applies to the part. At least thats the way it used to be.

Correct. Orignal warranty applies. If you have 3 years and 30k miles left on your warranty, then the replacement part has that same warranty. If the original warranty is up and you pay out of pocket you get the 12 month warranty for the replacement part (unless it's a reman unit, they carry a 3/36).

Now, replacing that trans with a used unit voids the factory warranty on that part. Meaning, he gets stranded with a bad trans out of state he is berkeleyed. Honda cannot and will not warranty that vehicle. The "warranty" this dealership is referring to is their warranty valid only at that dealership. Means pretty much nothing. THIS is why he needs a new Honda trans.

Bobzilla wrote:

This is coming out of the pocket of the dealership directly. It has nothing to do with American Honda at this point.

And hence why they are still trying to screw poopie by using a used trans instead of a new one. Trying to save a few bucks for their own SNAFU. Hopefully, the tech that changed the transmission fliud isn't the one doing the trans change out.

So it's now "unreasonable" to ask that they put a part in the vehicle that will be covered at any dealership in the country from American Honda? That's "unreasonable"?

But that's the thing. It's not a "warrantied item" any longer. It is now your responsibility to get the "warrantying" dealer to pay. They can, and will, hold the car until payment is recieved. When you're far from home, that is not convienent.

Bobzilla wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: So the used one and the new one are warrantied to 60k miles. Why the push for the new one? Everyone is pushing for the dealer to give home something better than what he had. If they wrecked the car, would they have to give him a brand new car? I'm just saying if I was the dealer and you started demanding a new one, and only a new one, I would tell you to prove it was my fault, and that would be tough for you to do.

A.) They've already admitted fault. B.) If the trans had died of natural causes, Honda would not install a used transmission. C.) After selling an unneeded service, improperly DOING that unneeded service and then jerking the customer around for almost 2 days before giving him word and not offering to pay the rental for their screw up, the LEAST they can do is pony up the other $490 and install a new OEM trans.

bingo

Bobzilla wrote:

DirtyBird222 wrote: Poop I stopped reading at page four. You need a brand spanking new transmission from Honda. Not a refurbed, not a used, etc. You have a 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. The transmission was ruined by the mistakes of one of their techs. In no way shape or form is this your fault or responsibility. This dealership needs to suck it up and replace it under warranty as it should be. Keep pestering Honda NA and the Service Manager. The Service Manager is giving you a load of crap with the 20k mile one, he's trying to save his dealer the paperwork and money involved with the warranty work. Much easier for him to find a used one, foot the bill, pay his tech and be done with it. Sucks you have to go through with this but E36 M3 this is your car and fight for your E36 M3. I went through the same nonsense with Subaru. Copper chunks in the oil, three dealers later none of them would touch it with a 100ft pole and all told me that "When she blows we'll replace it no problem." Subaru North America stood behind their dealers and stated the same. At least the bullE36 M3 flowed consistently. I got something out of them which helped for a new Honda Civic Si, but I got somewhere with enough pestering.

This can not be warranty work from American Honda. This is an internal issue. If they tried to file a warranty claim with Honda on this, once that trans was recieved and inspected, they would get charged back the the entire claim (parts, labor, shipping cost of bad part for inspection) and would be placed under watch for more fraudulent claims. The more of these they see, they get audited. This is coming out of the pocket of the dealership directly. It has nothing to do with American Honda at this point.

See Paragraph 1, Sentences 8 & 9 of my response that you challenged. You pretty much reworded what I said with a few more words. Deerrrpppppp

Datsun1500 wrote: If a guy came on here and posted that his engine was going bad so he had an oil change done and took out the drain plug in order to say the oil change place owed him a new motor, would you take his side over the dealer? I know it's not what happened here, but you are taking the original post that the dealer is at fault (and has admitted it) as 100% truth. What if the owner insisted on the fluid change at 30k, and the dealer said no, but did it after he threw a fit? Who's fault for the unecessary service then?

doesn't matter who asked for it if you berkeley it up.

DirtyBird222 wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

DirtyBird222 wrote: Poop I stopped reading at page four. You need a brand spanking new transmission from Honda. Not a refurbed, not a used, etc. You have a 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. The transmission was ruined by the mistakes of one of their techs. In no way shape or form is this your fault or responsibility. This dealership needs to suck it up and replace it under warranty as it should be. Keep pestering Honda NA and the Service Manager. The Service Manager is giving you a load of crap with the 20k mile one, he's trying to save his dealer the paperwork and money involved with the warranty work. Much easier for him to find a used one, foot the bill, pay his tech and be done with it. Sucks you have to go through with this but E36 M3 this is your car and fight for your E36 M3. I went through the same nonsense with Subaru. Copper chunks in the oil, three dealers later none of them would touch it with a 100ft pole and all told me that "When she blows we'll replace it no problem." Subaru North America stood behind their dealers and stated the same. At least the bullE36 M3 flowed consistently. I got something out of them which helped for a new Honda Civic Si, but I got somewhere with enough pestering.

This can not be warranty work from American Honda. This is an internal issue. If they tried to file a warranty claim with Honda on this, once that trans was recieved and inspected, they would get charged back the the entire claim (parts, labor, shipping cost of bad part for inspection) and would be placed under watch for more fraudulent claims. The more of these they see, they get audited. This is coming out of the pocket of the dealership directly. It has nothing to do with American Honda at this point.

See Paragraph 1, Sentences 8 & 9 of my response that you challenged. You pretty much reworded what I said with a few more words. Deerrrpppppp

What you stated in bold is incorrect. He cannot claim this as warranty work. Period. The dealer has to eat this one. You berkeley it up, you pay for it.

Sorry to hear they berkeleyed up your transmission Poopie. Reading all the posts it sounds like you need to hold out for a new transmission from the dealer. The used one could be from this car!

only 8700 miles!

Been there

This is the oil pan after they left the plug loose. My guy made it 47 miles after the oil change till the truck shut down. The dealer towed it in; filled it back up and said it was good. I had it in writing that the full warrant would apply when it failed and sure enough 130 miles later this is what happened. Dealer took it on the chin and provided a written warranty from GMC for all the work done to cover the normal warranty period. Cover your ass and understand that they are doing the same.

Edit: since pics are awesome

As a former tech, the tardo who left the plug loose will likely get canned.

I worked at an instalube place when I was 19. Most chebby three-fiddys in trucks or SUVs take the same oil filter...almost every single variant. One day, a 'burban comes in, and I was working "bottomside" - i.e. the guy who drains the oil and replaces the filter if its accessible from below (which it is on 'burbans). The topside tech is supposed to call out to the bottom tech which filter to use, though, you start to recognize cars by their floorpans and you already know which filter goes where when you get under a car.

So, I drain the pan, and go to replace the filter. The stores General Manager is working topside, and calls out filter X, when I know its supposed to by filter Y.I question this, and he says "no no no", its definitely X". I say "uuhhh...Im pretty sure youre wrong". He tells me not to worry about it, hes right, and in his words "since [he] is working topside, its on him anyway".

SO, I put the WRONG filter on the car. The threads sorta line up, and it seals tightly enough to not leak when the engine builds pressure. But, a few miles down the road, the poorly aligned threads give up, filter drops, and the engine excuses all the oil from service.

Sure as sh!t, an hour later, the engine lets go. Guess who gets canned? Thats right, this guy. Im on camera, questioning what I was being told. Its clear to see. They even record audio, so theres no mistaking it. The area rep tells the manager that he will be "reprimanded", and that I am to be terminated for allowing the car to leave with incorrectly installed parts.

Oh well, a year or two later, the guy went to prison for life when he stabbed his wife with a screwdriver while under the influence of PCP, so I guess, long term, I win. Still, that tech is toast.

Bobzilla wrote: Now, replacing that trans with a used unit voids the factory warranty on that part. Meaning, he gets stranded with a bad trans out of state he is berkeleyed. Honda cannot and will not warranty that vehicle. The "warranty" this dealership is referring to is their warranty valid only at that dealership. Means pretty much nothing. THIS is why he needs a new Honda trans.

Thank you!!!!!

Having read the whole thread (whew) my concern would be the lack of transferrability of the warranty. IF they can prove IN WRITING that any other dealership will honor their warranty on the trans, then great. If they can't, I would consider contacting Honda Corporate and explaining the situation. I would figure that at some level Corporate would be responsible for their dealers' actions on a car that's still in warranty. To my mind, the dealership has put Honda Corporate in jeopardy through their actions. I would look for a a way to make HC honor the used transmission warranty if the dealership is willing to install a used trans. If Honda isn't willing to back their dealership's evaluation of the trans ( and therefore the warranty), then I wouldn't be willing to have it installed. If Honda Corp will back the warranty, I'd thrash that used trans with no worries.

At any rate, I would involve the regional Honda rep in either case. This is something they should be involved in.

Also, since you're in GA, you might want to red up on our lemon law. If they fix the same problem twice, the third time you get a new car. Might or might not apply here...

ultraclyde wrote: At any rate, I would involve the regional Honda rep in either case. This is something they should be involved in.

Yes.^

Is this really a realistic concern? Synchros start to go at 32k miles, he brings it to another dealer and...what? They notice it's not the original transmission and won't work on it?

Why not call Honda, explain the situation, and get clarification from them?

I've got nothing to offer that hasn't been said, but best of luck, Poop.

Service manager called this morning while I was cutting frames. Missed his call, but he left a voicemail and said "Give me a call back or I'll try you again later."

I left another voicemail with him, explaining that while I understood his logic, I was not comfortable with putting used parts in the car, as they do not come with a HONDA warranty, and explained that I was going to Tampa in a couple weeks. What happens if I get stuck 500 miles from the dealership?

I already have a case# with corporate. Got that yesterday after 27 hours with no returned calls from the dealership. A regional manager is supposed to call me by the end of the day today...we'll see whether or not that happens. Clock's tickin!

mfennell wrote: Is this really a realistic concern? Synchros start to go at 32k miles, he brings it to another dealer and...what? They notice it's not the original transmission and won't work on it? Why not call Honda, explain the situation, and get clarification from *them*?

Dude, didn't you read all 22 pages!?!? (joking.)