kb58 wrote: I think it's time we take a stand. We'll form a group and take over a smog-testing station for as long as it takes until the government meets our demands. We'll all wear Stig outfits to convey how serious and bad-ass we are - who wants to be in charge of food?
I think the more important question is who wants to be in charge of all the sex toys?
SEMA has been sending out essentially the same press release for at least 20 years, because the same types of legislation are pretty much ALWAYS floating around. Ultimately it becomes a way for SEMA to boast a little and for manufacturers and regulators to communicate a little better.
Bottom line: Don't panic. The chances of this regulation affecting our hobby are minuscule, and if versions of it ever do affect us it may actually be in a positive way (higher quality parts, more universal coding, etc.)
Also, whenever you see something on the internet, make sure to post it as much as you can because things on the internet are always true. I'm actually a little disappointed that so many other journey-types are falling for this again. They either have short memories or just want the clicks.
In reply to Flight Service:
By that phrase, it would also mean an end to e85 conversion as well..
iceracer wrote: In reply to NickD: The converter has to be there. Visual inspection.
yes but that converter may be hollow... also visual inspections make it easy to "know a guy".
Is this what the diesel guys have been bitching about the past few years?
kb58 wrote: I think it's time we take a stand. We'll form a group and take over a smog-testing station for as long as it takes until the government meets our demands. We'll all wear Stig outfits to convey how serious and bad-ass we are - who wants to be in charge of food?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WOW Really Paul? wrote: In reply to Flight Service: By that phrase, it would also mean an end to e85 conversion as well..
For a medium duty (which would be like a F250+ level truck) possibly.
but most of the time they pass with flying colors.
edizzle89 wrote:iceracer wrote: In reply to NickD: The converter has to be there. Visual inspection.yes but that converter may be hollow... also visual inspections make it easy to "know a guy".
Also true. I saw an OBD2 Chrysler minivan with a hollow cat and no tomfoolery done to the O2 sensors or any other trickery that never threw a CEL. It was rather strange.
If you're bypassing Federal Emissions laws, I wouldn't be bragging about it on the internet.
Here's my rub with any proposed changes and why SEMA beats the drum at all proposed EPA rules changes, rules creep. Just like that guy that all of a sudden bitches the rules are unfair and gets them changed to fit themselves and all of a sudden the $500 beater class becomes the $250000 vehicle to even finish midpack. The same can be done here, except that if no one opposes this rule change now, future rules changes will just be rubber stamped no matter how much someone raises their voice in opposition. The EPA has proven this since the original Clear Air act was put into effect, which was what, 1974?
Now, I'm all for "clean air", but you can only do so much before you may as well enact legislation for the eradication of ALL human beings off the planet......
szeis4cookie wrote: So, unless you're racing semi's, this rule doesn't apply.
None the less, the frothing continues.
This thread shall not be derailed by mere facts! Especially facts that do not support the outrage.
This is why GRM rocks! I saw it on FB last night and had a what the berk moment. I guess I wont worry!
foxtrapper wrote:Found it, and SEMA is indeed lying.
This is the federal register notice: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-07-13/pdf/2015-15500.pdf
Page 40527 "As noted above, the exemption provisions of 40 CFR part 1068, subpart C, already apply for heavy-duty highway engines. EPA is proposing to add a clarification that the exemption from the tampering prohibition for competition purposes does not apply to heavy-duty highway vehicles. This aligns with the statutory provisions for the racing exemption."
So it's a proposed ban setting up heavy-duty highway vehicles for racing, while clarifying that other vehicles can indeed be modified for racing.
SEMA, always lying for drama and ratings.
Nope I don;t think so. What the actual text of the proposed regulation is saying is that a vehicle delivered from the manufacturer as a non-street legal competition (exempt) vehicle, such as a Porsche Cup car or a Ford Mustang Cobra Jet would be legal, but converting a Mustang GT into an A-Sedan or American Iron car would not be legal, since it was delivered for use on the street.
The existing prohibitions and exemptions in 40 CFR part 1068 related to competition engines and vehicles need to be amended to account for differing policies for nonroad and motor vehicle applications. In particular, we generally consider nonroad engines and vehicles to be ‘‘used solely for competition’’ based on usage characteristics. This allows EPA to set up an administrative process to approve competition exemptions, and to create an exemption from the tampering prohibition for products that are modified for competition purposes. There is no comparable allowance for motor vehicles. A motor vehicle qualifies for a competition exclusion based on the physical characteristics of the vehicle, not on its use. Also, if a motor vehicle is covered by a certificate of conformity at any point, there is no exemption from the tampering and defeat-device prohibitions that would allow for converting the engine or vehicle for competition use. There is no prohibition against actual use of certified motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines for competition purposes; however, it is not permissible to remove a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine from its certified configuration regardless of the purpose for doing so. It is relatively straightforward to apply the provisions of 40 CFR part 1068 to all engines subject to the criteria emission standards in 40 CFR part 86, subpart A, and the associated vehicles.
At the same time, the likelihood of this going through is slim, becuase that would effectively shut down the racing hobby entirely, and that is a LOT of lost jobs, not to mention taxes.
Brett_Murphy wrote: If you're bypassing Federal Emissions laws, I wouldn't be bragging about it on the internet.
I've posted before that there are GRM fans at the EPA. They have a lot of racers and car fans that work there. More than one challenge car start has roots there.
Actually, one challenge car almost had an EPA sticker on it.
In reply to Ranger50:
So the clean air act is the beginning of the end? Ironic since the goal is to save lives.
Thanks for clarifying all this. Makes me alot less worried. But living in a non-inspection state I wasnt to bothered anyways.
alfadriver wrote:Brett_Murphy wrote: If you're bypassing Federal Emissions laws, I wouldn't be bragging about it on the internet.I've posted before that there are GRM fans at the EPA. They have a lot of racers and car fans that work there. More than one challenge car start has roots there. Actually, one challenge car almost had an EPA sticker on it.
None of mine with emissions deletes see public streets anyways, so they can cheese it.
In reply to WOW Really Paul?:
?
In reply to alfadriver:
Save who's lives?
The people that would benefit don't even know what emissions are in their own life and they are full grown adults.
Ranger50 wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Save who's lives? The people that would benefit don't even know what emissions are in their own life and they are full grown adults.
Dude. How about people who breath air, whether through their noses or their mouths, you know EVERYONE!
NickD wrote: Seriously, what percentage of cars do these even account for anyways? Are they that big an issue? And does it only cover cars that have to be emission tested? For example, my 1990 Miata doesn't have to be emission tested in NY, so if I toss the catalytic converter would I run afoul of EPA law?
Actually, yes.
foxtrapper wrote: So it's a proposed ban setting up heavy-duty highway vehicles for racing, while clarifying that other vehicles can indeed be modified for racing. SEMA, always lying for drama and ratings.
They came for the Class 8 truck racers, and I said nothing, because I thought those were kinda silly.
NickD wrote:edizzle89 wrote:Also true. I saw an OBD2 Chrysler minivan with a hollow cat and no tomfoolery done to the O2 sensors or any other trickery that never threw a CEL. It was rather strange.iceracer wrote: In reply to NickD: The converter has to be there. Visual inspection.yes but that converter may be hollow... also visual inspections make it easy to "know a guy".
I used to see that all the time on Fords.
The heartbreaking part is when they WOULD have passed a scantool test except the DLC fuse was blown, so the test center ran it on the rollers, which it of course fails. To pass after failing a roller test, you have to pass the roller test. So that 15 cent fuse that blew because you dropped a penny in the ashtray cost you 1000+ dollars.
In reply to alfadriver:
Nothing I have with that stuff done is street legal, nor tagged. Hence my comment of "They(EPA) can cheese it"
I've got what appears to be documentation from VP Steve McDonald that clarifies a little bit of this. It doesn't appear there is a way to add attachments on this forum, but if anyone is interested, I can email it to you or something.
It looks like it DOES include light duty vehicles, or at least they want it to eventually. Excerpt:
On July 13, 2015, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a proposed rule to establish Phase 2 regulations for greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions and fuel consumption for new on-road medium- and heavy-duty vehicles. The EPA included a proposal hidden within the rulemaking to make it illegal for certified motor vehicles to be converted into vehicles used solely for competition. Specifically, the proposed rule (“Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles--Phase 2”) would add the following language to 40 C.F.R. Part 86 (40 C.F.R. § 86.1854), a section of the regulations applicable to new and in-use vehicles, including light duty vehicles: “Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines”. 80 Fed. Reg. 40138, 40565 (July 13, 2015).
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