In reply to rb92673 :
+1 for the Hans. JG did a video talking about the Hans Hybrid, which straps around your torso and doesn't rely on a harness. I then watched nascar and saw a lot of younger drivers with that setup and finally saw an Extreme E race where the drivers harness came off after a jump and his traditional Hans was useless.
the hybrid is perfect for autox/rallyx etc. 
idk why it's so big sorry everyone
I think there is some confusion about the Simpson Hybrid HANS offerings... the ONLY Hybrid that Simpson states is compatible for use with a 3 point belt system is the Hybrid S. The Hybrid Pro, Hybrid Sport and Hybrid Youth Sport are specified for use with harnesses.
Correct, simpson's naming system is kind of crap. The hybrid *S* is the only three point belt compatible one. Easily identifiable by having the longer spine brace...and costing 2x as much as the other hybrid models.
This video has good info pertaining to this topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7CK8WAob8dU&feature=emb_logo
and this was a discussion about it:
joe's opinion is that it is riskier to run three-point stock seat than a harness and a containment seat.
Oh wow, that's good info! Look at GRM coming through!!!
docwyte said:To do it right, it's a properly designed and installed rollbar/cage, with seats and harnesses. Most of the bolt in "roll bars" really aren't all that much better than a harness bar, they just look more of the part and weigh a whole lot more. So that then turns into a thing of well, now you need to have it welded in, so it'll actually do what it's supposed to do thing...
That's a particular issue on 911's, (and the GRM BMW, cough, cough) where almost all of the bolt in "roll bars" attach to the rear seat belt mounts, so 2 bolts, in shear, on either side. That's no better than just a harness bar, but I certainly understand why people are reluctant to rip apart their expensive car and permanently weld a roll bar in...
That's why you have to stick with well known brands. There are a few videos on YouTube showing Miata rollovers with Hard Dog roll bars that kep the driver from injury.
Not like the horrible shop (CarFX) that used to be in Tulsa. That's who did the "roll bar" of the blue Mustang at Hallett on it's roof, collapsed, and you could see where the downtubes sticking through the floor pan.
In reply to z31maniac :
Even "good brands" make crappy parts. If you look into the descriptions of the "roll bars" for the 911's, you'll see that the companies (Well respected Porsche companies) selling them are very careful to label them as "harness bars" vs a true roll bar, because mounting a "roll bar" to factory seat belt mounts, with one bolt, in shear, on each attachment would never pass tech in any organization.
Yet if you go look at pretty much 99.9% of the 911's with "roll bars" installed, that's how you'll see them installed. Like I pointed out, the GRM BMW's "roll bar" is mounted very similarly. I get it, I wouldn't want to either drill holes, or remove interior and weld a roll bar into my 911 either. That being said, I also wouldn't spend thousands of dollars on something that's really just a heavy harness bar thinking that it's giving me any real protection. The better ones mount the rear legs to the rear shock towers, so at least that's some beef. The front downtube still attach to the outer front seat belt mount though, 1 bolt, in shear on either side. That's going to snap and the bar will punch through the floor, just like the Mustang in your pic.
In reply to docwyte :
Ahh gotcha. I used the Hard Dog in my NA. Double shear mounting plates, 4 bolts in each attached to "beefy" parts of the chassis.
But I didn't care about drilling holes in a 3k car I initally planned on turning into a NASA TT. But after the engine popped a 2nd time, I parted it out. Now I'm just too lazy and poor to have another dedicated track car.
jfryjfry said:This video has good info pertaining to this topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7CK8WAob8dU&feature=emb_logo
and this was a discussion about it:
joe's opinion is that it is riskier to run three-point stock seat than a harness and a containment seat.
Some relevant timestamps if you don't want to watch an hour
17:55 - if that doesn't convince you to buy a hans....
36:42- listen to him talk about what rollover protection he has and why
42:56- you can see how far out the window you can get with a 3pt.
Motojunky said:Motojunky said:
- I have never tried simply scooting the seat back, locking the belt, and then pushing myself into the belt. I'm currently dailying a clone of my RallyX car, so I'll test that today. I'd feel foolish if that does the trick.
Well, I feel a little foolish. I locked the belt in tight and slung myself around the best I could to test it. It's not as good as a harness, but it's definitely better than nothing. It took two seasons of RallyCross to try this. What a maroon.
Every day's a good day to learn something new.
Indeed it is a good day to learn something new!
Appreciate the links and timestamps above. Haven't had time to watch yet, but I will.
Yeah, I watched that video with Joe Marko too and the extent that the person was tossed out of the open window was really shocking. Which makes you wonder if we truly are more safe running windows up on track, especially with stock 3 point belts.
I do have a Brey Krause (spider man) harness bar sitting in the basement for my 996. It's an intermediate safety step, as it gives no rollover protection, but does address what Joe talks about in his video. As I pointed out, none of the bolt in "roll bars" for my car are better than what I already have, they just look more of the part and are a lot more expensive and heavier. The only true roll bar that gives safety is the Porsche club sport bar, which is no longer made, costs $6000 when you can find out used, and requires welding and drilling holes in your car.
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