Thought exercise: convert FWD transaxle to mid engine without using external linkage.

Yeah, it's been done by OE's such as Fiat, Toyota etc and by multitudes of engine swappers. The difference is the OE's typically did it by changing the exit point of the shifter shaft, the swappers (or at least the ones I have seen) tend to do it by building external linkage.

So here's my question: has anyone on this board done it the OE way, i.e. modify the case to bring the shift shaft out of the other side of the case?

There are a number of people (not me) who have done what Toyota did when making FWD engine packages (Silvertop 20V from a JDM Corolla into a MK1 MR2). That is probably a pretty well documented application to review.

Anything is possible with a welder and CNC machine I suppose.

Here's how I did it with an H22 from a Prelude into an Integra: FWD trans to mid-engine shift linkage

This is using the stock Prelude shift cables reversed and extended at the shifter, then through bell-cranks at the trans. Note the bell-crank lever lengths controlled the shifter motion (shortened the throw).

In reply to OnTheChip:

I don't have the time to read the nearly 300 page thread. Could you help the lazy and tell me what page to look at for pics of the completed project?

Sounds like an awesome project.

EDIT: I clicked on about 70 of the nearly 300 pages and since 90% of the posts are people telling you how awesome you are I never did find any good shots of the car itself. When I have time I will go back and look some more, because I really do want to see the finished project. From the parts I saw, it looks like you did great work on it.

Curmudgeon wrote: Yeah, it's been done by OE's such as Fiat, Toyota etc and by multitudes of engine swappers. The difference is the OE's typically did it by changing the exit point of the shifter shaft, the swappers (or at least the ones I have seen) tend to do it by building external linkage. So here's my question: has anyone on this board done it the OE way, i.e. modify the case to bring the shift shaft out of the other side of the case?

Moving a FWD Honda drivetrain to the back involves building an external sub-frame to hold the shift cables at the transmission end. At the other end, a stock shifter can be used, simply turned around to point at the back of the car. You can dig through my build diary at www.midlana.com and look for pictures.

So to answer your question, no, the shafts don't need to be run out the other side (in the Honda example, they extend out the top of the transaxle).

Here's an early picture of my shifter cables - forward is up.

Cool. Good stuff! Looks pretty simple to do on external linkage transaxles like those.

What I was thinking was along the lines of the 'selector rod' transmissions, that's where a single rod sticks out of the rear of the transaxle such as in our Civic LeMons car.

This sticks out of the rear of the transaxle since it's in a FWD setup. I was thinking, just continue the bore through the case making it come out of the front of the transaxle, greatly simplifying the shifter mechanism. Anybody done this?

I got lost in thought in a fantasy along these same lines last night. After being very busy at work for a while I lucked into some gravy and got to turn a large steel roller on an old Monarch engine lathe, which means lots of cut time and idle hands.

My mind was immediately flushed down the drain of the kit car fantasy build. Let's see... I'd take one of those front subframe kits from Jegs or Summit and build a frame from there back, encasing the engine and transaxle from a Fiesta or Focus in a mid-mounted position (for max MPG's and sportiness, I've been reading about Max lately.).

Mold, shape and slap on a body reminiscent of the RS200 and sell them like hot cakes!... oh, my cut's done. Time to check the size and make more chips!

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Funny, I was just thinking along the same lines about putting the drivetrain in my civic in the back.

pinchvalve wrote: Anything is possible with a welder, a torch, a bridgeport and an engine lathe, I suppose.

FTFY

Curmudgeon wrote: Cool. Good stuff! Looks pretty simple to do on external linkage transaxles like those. What I was thinking was along the lines of the 'selector rod' transmissions, that's where a single rod sticks out of the rear of the transaxle such as in our Civic LeMons car. This sticks out of the rear of the transaxle since it's in a FWD setup. I was thinking, just continue the bore through the case making it come out of the front of the transaxle, greatly simplifying the shifter mechanism. Anybody done this?

You certainly could do that, but why? If you design and build the external linkage properly you can avoid having a customized transaxle case by simply running the shift linkage cables under or over the transaxle, etc.

Ideally a transaxle with the linkage pickup points at the top of the transaxle are easiest to work with in this situation, but it isn't the end of the world if it isn't.

Curmudgeon wrote: Cool. Good stuff! Looks pretty simple to do on external linkage transaxles like those. What I was thinking was along the lines of the 'selector rod' transmissions, that's where a single rod sticks out of the rear of the transaxle such as in our Civic LeMons car. This sticks out of the rear of the transaxle since it's in a FWD setup. I was thinking, just continue the bore through the case making it come out of the front of the transaxle, greatly simplifying the shifter mechanism. Anybody done this?

Yeah that's what I was wondering if that's what you meant. Since all I've ever dealt with are cable-shifted FWD assemblies, I tend to forget about the rod-controlled types. There are creative solutions but there's no getting around some pretty interesting arrangements. A compromise might be to use cables to operate an assembly that changes the push/pulls into something the rod shifter understands. I actually enjoy those kind of mechanical puzzles.

With modern cable shifters, you don't need mod the trans. Just route the new cables.

My $2011 N600 used a Civic powertrain with the shift rod shown above moved to the rear. All that was needed was a shift rod that looked like a candy cane (hook on the end of a long rod). It doesn't look fancy, but it's not hard.

As mentioned, anything with a cable shifter just needs cables in the other direction. Not optimized, but certainly easy.

Bryce

I know I could do the 'candy cane' piece, my thoughts were to 1) minimize what's hanging under the car to get snagged 2) make it look all neato and factory. My thought was to have the bore for the shift shaft machined going out of the 'wrong' side of the transaxle, a la Fiat X 1/9, then proceed in the normal fashion.

Just a thought exercise, got too many irons in the fire to start this one!

For the price of a D-series, the F-series is a MUCH better option. Cable shifted transmission, too.

Curmudgeon wrote: Cool. Good stuff! Looks pretty simple to do on external linkage transaxles like those. What I was thinking was along the lines of the 'selector rod' transmissions, that's where a single rod sticks out of the rear of the transaxle such as in our Civic LeMons car. This sticks out of the rear of the transaxle since it's in a FWD setup. I was thinking, just continue the bore through the case making it come out of the front of the transaxle, greatly simplifying the shifter mechanism. Anybody done this?

For us sho people to do shogun swaps, we have to convert to the cable shifter from the 89-91 sho. No easy way to do it with a rod shifter. On a civic trans, you could probably adapt our sho part to work since your diagram is almost identical to our 92-95 rod shifters.

If you look at the Chrysler A525 transaxle used in the Omni's and early Daytona's they were the same externally, but the Omni used linkage and the Daytona used a pair of cables.

Not hard to adapt a pair of cables to the existing solution, just have to be a bit creative.