Thoughts of a dealership walker

These are my ramblings after walking a couple dealership lots with a friend who is looking for a car:

Hyundai: It is great to see that there is still someone out there who makes not one but 2 models available with a manual and radio/ac delete (Accent and Elantra).

Honda: 40 Civics are on the lot and not a single one is a manual. Also $19,xxx was the average price for ones I saw on a sticker?! Plus, the only Fit on the whole lot was a used 07 for sale.

Ford: A Focus with a $20k pricetag. Pass.

He is pretty set on the Elantra Sedan w/ manual trans and radio/ac delete too.

For a transportation unit, you can't go wrong with a Hyundai. For a little more style, but (perhaps) a little less quality, check into the Kia Soul.

Manual - yes. Radio delete - yes. But no A/C? What is the savings really? I didn't think it was that expensive of an option.

A/C option also pays for itself come resale time. Trying to sell one without these days is near impossible.

ddavidv wrote: A/C option also pays for itself come resale time. Trying to sell one without these days is near impossible.

+1

If you purchase a car that has the AC delete option, get the AC, but stop at the parts store on the way home and get a non AC belt for the same model. Did it with my old cavalier. You can notice a little better throttle response since its not having to spin that pulley. Then when you want the AC for the summer or whatever, its still there. Yeah youre toting around 35 or 40 lbs of condenser and compressor etc, but like david says, youll have a real hard time getting out from under it when the time comes to move on.

I wouldn't buy a new car or a used DD w/o a/c. But if your friend will save some fuel...when his Windows are up.

If he get's the A/C delete, make sure he gets the only other option he'll need, it's the sponge that goes below his sack to collect sweat and save the seat cover from unsightly stains

Only issue with cheap cars is their crash test performance. They're still easily 10 years behind. I'd buy a good 3-4yr. old car w/ a CPO warranty before I bought a new Kia/Hyundai.

speedblind wrote: Only issue with cheap cars is their crash test performance. They're still easily 10 years behind. I'd buy a good 3-4yr. old car w/ a CPO warranty before I bought a new Kia/Hyundai.

Might want to check your stats again

http://www.safercar.gov

Most of the Kia's and Hyundai's do quite well in crash ratings.

Uh speedblind, most Hyundai's and Kia's are 5-star rated...

I went over to the Hyundai website and in the "build your own" process I see that for the Elantra Sedan, you have to take the base model in order to get a manual trans.
The GLS and Touring version only come with 4 speed automatics.
I did not realize this ugly trend had made its way to Hyundai as well.
Unlike the sedan, the Elantra Wagon can be outfitted in manual trans in the Touring Edition.
The Accent can be had in any level with a manual trans.

Also, on the Elantra base model, the AC is part of a $1,700 package which includes radio.

jrw1621 wrote: Also, on the Elantra base model, the AC is part of a $1,700 package which includes radio.

That makes me wonder if you can't get A/C alone as a dealer add-on like the old Honda system.

AC Delete costs extra on an Elise.

Dr. Hess wrote: AC Delete costs extra on an Elise.

Gotta love 'exotic'...

My old Civic was radio and A/C delete, and we saved money by choosing the manual transmission. Heck, they made the passenger side mirror optional!

But I suppose it's our fault. As consumers, we demanded A/C, power everything, automatics, nice stereos, and so on. Now, even the cheapest econobox is stuffed with standard amenities! Great for the average car buyer, but not so good for us enthusiasts with little cash. Can you even custom-order a car anymore? I heard that you can still spec out a Mustang they way you want it if you are willing to wait and to pay full price.

Obviously most on here have not had the pleasure of driving cars when AC was not a readily available thing. Texas in the summer time . Open the windows and sweat. I use the AC on my vehicles because they have it. It is not a deal breaker. But then summer in south Florida can change my mind.

Dr. Hess wrote: AC Delete costs extra on an Elise.

It's all that added lightness.

NOT using the A/C throughout the year DOES NOT save all that much money. I once owned a Pontiac J2000 with manual and A/C and used the air sparingly. Eventually, the freon leaked out because the seals had all dried up from lack of use. Repairing the A/C cost almost as much as putting a "new" system in the car. Besides, A/C kicks in when you use the windshield defogger/defroster and saves time in clearing ALL the windows.

Finally, in this day and age, why would anyone one buy a used car that could have had A/C from new....but doesn't ? I agree, "bundling" A/C with other options, some of which you may not want, stinks.

As far as the other "observations" stated at the beginning of this topic,

Ford thinks that since the Fiesta will start at $16,000+ for the STRIPPER model, admittedly, not all that stripped, that they (Ford) needs to move the Focus "upmarket". That's why 2 years ago, we started seeing that ridiculous SEL Focus....with standard leather seating for OVER $20,000. I expect by the time the 2012 Focus arrives, in about a year, you won't see many UNDER $20,000.

And Honda? It's impossible anymore to find a new one on a lot with a manual transmission...ANY model. Fits are hard to find new because the U.S. market gets so few. BTW, I priced a Fit Sport against a Civic LX (a 2 door coupe), the Fit is just $800-$900 LESS expensive than a nearly comparable Civic. (I wanted cruise, and the GROSSLY more expensive Sport is the only way to get it).

Sister inl aw has been walking lots looking at new cars and was amazed at the prices (high!!) on the Taruii and the Fusions. We have told her repeatedly to not buy a new car.

JThw8 wrote:

speedblind wrote: Only issue with cheap cars is their crash test performance. They're still easily 10 years behind. I'd buy a good 3-4yr. old car w/ a CPO warranty before I bought a new Kia/Hyundai.

Might want to check your stats again http://www.safercar.gov Most of the Kia's and Hyundai's do quite well in crash ratings.

There's a BIG difference between the NHTSA/gov't crash tests and those used in other countries and available here. Look into the methodology and you'll find the Euro tests are pretty much the best around, and many of the Korean models simply aren't allowed to be sold over there due to their test performance.

Over here, we have IIHS which does much more realistic testing (they were the first to do offset front tests, for example, which is much more real-world than running cars perfectly centered into a flat surface [NHTSA test]).

In short, stars are pretty easy to engineer around. The stuff IIHS is doing is more realistic, and you'll find their Good ratings are harder to come by.

Here are some links. You'll see that they're getting much better, but still have a lot of marginal/poor ratings. Compare to Honda/Subaru/VW, and there's still a big difference in the build sophistication/safety.

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=484

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=430

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=484

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?hyundai

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=318

I love the term "5 Star Safety Rating" . Why not 10 or 7? There are billions of stars... why not have a 1:1 scale?

+what speedblind had to say... Its like Jeeps being "Trail Rated".

Does the friend absolutely, positively have to finance it, hence the new car purchase?

I have owned 2 new cars - a 1980 Civic 'cause it was the beginning of the 2nd gen Civics and '79s were sold out, and a 2002 Civic ep3 hatch. No one bought them and at the end of the model year they were being given away.

That said, for any car purchase based on a need that could be fulfilled by anything available used, I cannot imagine why one would take the depreciation hit when it could be deferred to a previous owner. Plus with the down economy the used car market is actually quite good. It's why I ditched the beater Dakota for a nice Tacoma and supersized to a Miata in the past 12 months...

I'm not sure where the idea that "most Korean cars are not allowed to be sold in Europe" comes from, but a check in the British auto mags shows that the BIGGER Korean manufacturers have a slighter BIGGER selection of models for sale than are sold in the U.S. Even (relatively?) tiny Ssangyong Motors sells in Europe. No, Korean cars aren't, for the most part, admired, or BOUGHT in Europe, but they are sold there.

If I have a complaint against a korean car versus a "similar" Japanese car, it's in the engineering. Most specifically, the engines, which many mags (here and abroad) describe as "gritty", noisy, boomy, but in my book...the ultimate sin, not as economical as a Japanese engine of the same size. The previous generation of the Accent was not what I would call an "economy car", based on it's poor gas mileage, compared to a Civic...which is a bigger/heavier car with a bigger engine.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I love the term "5 Star Safety Rating" . Why not 10 or 7? There are billions of stars... why not have a 1:1 scale? +what speedblind had to say... Its like Jeeps being "Trail Rated".

yeah.. I was about ready to say that I don't trust just one rating system for safety, too many times you find a car with a 5 star government and is horrid in the IIHS scores. Funny how it's never the other way around... HA! But, I always look for vehicles that get good scores in both.

iceracer wrote: Obviously most on here have not had the pleasure of driving cars when AC was not a readily available thing. Texas in the summer time . Open the windows and sweat. I use the AC on my vehicles because they have it. It is not a deal breaker. But then summer in south Florida can change my mind.

I moved to SC with busted A/C in my ranger. My grundle still stanks from all the sweat that used to pool there during my drive home.