Okay, I'll bite regarding XXRs. My buddy got a set of 527s on his EP3 about a year ago, and those things have held up to him routinely launching the inner two wheels off of rolled curbs on roundabouts like it's some kind of cup car. For the money they seem really solid, at least in that style.
In reply to Trackmouse:
I think the more show-oriented guys bash on these (and Rotas et. al.) more because they're kinda like Fiero-based Ferrari "replicas." Or like a fake Rolex. It's clear that they copied someone else's design but they usually lack the nuances that actually make them look good, and for people who are really into wheel collecting or whatever and spend $1000+ on rare old sets it's sort of a faux pas. That's obviously a different scene than most of us here, but I can get why they would be frowned upon even though I really don't care.
The durability worry rears its head with some designs that are copies of really delicate forged wheel designs, but cast instead of forged (looking at you, XXR 538, which is totally not at all a Work Equip 03 knockoff)...
I had a set of XXR 532s on my MkII Supra. Good-looking wheels but they were extremely heavy.
JacktheRiffer wrote: These are the ones I am looking at http://www.nlmotoring.com/XXR-537-Wheels-s/1751.htm Would get them in 16x8
Damn... those are cool. Glad these weren't around when I had my E30 or I'd probably have bought a set.
I have a problem with anyone who bases their company on stealing other people's intellectual property and making cheap knockoffs of it. My family business was decimated by Chinese knockoffs of our products that we sacrificed to bring to market and scumbags stole and sold for our material costs. Maybe I'm just an elitist hipster, but when there are wheels of higher quality that are unique, attractive designs are available for the same money (there Are companies that sell unique, lightweight low cost wheels), I just don't condone use of this type of product. It shows a lack of dignity and imagination. It hurts people that came up with innovative products and beautiful designs. It hurts good people, I was taught that you don't do that.
sesto elemento wrote: I have a problem with anyone who bases their company on stealing other people's intellectual property and making cheap knockoffs of it. My family business was decimated by Chinese knockoffs of our products that we sacrificed to bring to market and scumbags stole and sold for our material costs. Maybe I'm just an elitist hipster, but when there are wheels of higher quality that are unique, attractive designs are available for the same money (there Are companies that sell unique, lightweight low cost wheels), I just don't condone use of this type of product. It shows a lack of dignity and imagination. It hurts people that came up with innovative products and beautiful designs. It hurts good people, I was taught that you don't do that.
If I want a look on my car, but don't want to spend $1500 per corner on a $6k car, then I'm gonna buy the reps.
Wheels are round with spokes, holes or a combination. Until you make a pentagonal wheel and someone copies that, then I think whining about intellectual design is just that, whining.
Chris_V wrote:sesto elemento wrote: I have a problem with anyone who bases their company on stealing other people's intellectual property and making cheap knockoffs of it. My family business was decimated by Chinese knockoffs of our products that we sacrificed to bring to market and scumbags stole and sold for our material costs. Maybe I'm just an elitist hipster, but when there are wheels of higher quality that are unique, attractive designs are available for the same money (there Are companies that sell unique, lightweight low cost wheels), I just don't condone use of this type of product. It shows a lack of dignity and imagination. It hurts people that came up with innovative products and beautiful designs. It hurts good people, I was taught that you don't do that.If I want a look on my car, but don't want to spend $1500 per corner on a $6k car, then I'm gonna buy the reps. Wheels are round with spokes, holes or a combination. Until you make a pentagonal wheel and someone copies that, then I think whining about intellectual design is just that, whining.
No, I'll disgree with that, intellectual property needs to be protected; it's not whining when someone steals what you've worked to come up with, and China is well noted for IP theft. Or was, years back. Reverse engineering is legal (usually) because it demands a different design to perform the functionality - presumably if one came up with a solution to the problem, others would as well, or so goes the rationale.
The business end of that is coming up with the differentiator for the product or service, etc, because if it's making money, someone else wants a part of it, so how do you keep your edge.
RPF1s are bucks, Wideopens are not, but while very similar, the Konig design has moderately different spoke shapes (or Konig even perhaps pay a licensing fee if it's closer than I percieve), and the wheel itself is heavier. In our theoretical budget range, close enough! In that way, it's not a true competitor to the Enkei.
But if it were, and there wasn't IP theft involved, then what you say is more reasonable.
If all of the sudden there's IP theft involved and the Konig's are the same 11.5lbs the Enkei's are and still $100 a wheel, well, that's a pretty different story, isn't it?
I don't think if you were the owner of Enkei and that happened you'd have the same attitude.
Let's think about it a different way: would you sue Panasport or Rota when your Rota made wheel breaks and your car is totaled? Some might say it's all on Rota, because they made the wheel. Others may say "panasport!", because it was a direct copy of that design. If the design itself proves faulty, who is to blame? The creator of the design? Or the manufacturer that replicated it?
Trackmouse wrote: Let's think about it a different way: would you sue Panasport or Rota when your Rota made wheel breaks and your car is totaled? Some might say it's all on Rota, because they made the wheel. Others may say "panasport!", because it was a direct copy of that design. If the design itself proves faulty, who is to blame? The creator of the design? Or the manufacturer that replicated it?
Can we guarantee that rota copied the Panas down to the alloy used? If not, it's rota. Clone or not, whoever made the product in use is to blame. Sorta like if I sued apple because my headphones by doctor shocked the E36 M3 out of my head, and I wanted to blame beats for faulty design.
I don't get that argument at all. If I bought a cast, low-quality alloy knock off of a wheel that's forged, why would I sue the person who made the wheels properly? Because I was too cheap to buy the quality product?
In the case of something like a Rota RB, just because they pulled the mold from a $500 forged RS-Watanabe doesn't even come close to meaning they are the same wheel. They might look the same but that's about it. You bet the Rota is a cheaper, weaker cast product with much lower QC standards.
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