The $250 one is the lower end stuff.
Here's some cheap garbage: https://www.amazon.com/Racing-Universal-Steering-Xbox-One-Nintendo/dp/B07XJ29YXL
But I would not recommend it. A bad wheel/pedals will make you hate the experience, so its not a good test.
That's the point. You can get a Chinese Baofeng ham radio receiver for $30. You can get a cheap android tablet for $50.
Used cheap garbage steering wheels you would never want to buy are still 80 bucks. Cheap electronics should be cheap.
I will probably go out and buy the expensive one eventually, but I will whine about it first. That's just what I do.
What I really want is a formula car simulator that leans like a car leans. I'm sure that's probably out there somewhere.
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:Black Friday sales are starting and a new generation of CPU/GPU's have been released (supposedly, not sure how available they are), it might not be the worst time to pick up a deal either new or used as people upgrade.
From what I've seen, people are still asking stupid money for used 2080 series cards, because the 3xxx cards have been so hard to get.
everything that's releasing is asking over retail prices online for scalping.
everything current gen is still asking near retail for the most part.
lower end stuff is reasonably ish priced.. but still expensive because the market is dumb right now.
Yeah, I'm curious to see what sort of black friday sales there are for complete builds. Last year I bought my current system off of Amazon for just over $1600 CAD (don't tell the partner lol) so it will be interesting to see if that money actually gets you anything better. The build is an i7-9700k (all core overclock to 5.1 GHz), 2070 Super, 16 GB of ram on an Azus motherboard with a bunch of silly RGB fans and a liquid cooler for the CPU, at the time it was about $150 under what I could build it myself for and has ran fine for the past year.
If anything there will probably be some competitive AMD systems available that weren't last year as they had just started releasing their new processors at the time. The intel processors just seam to maybe be holding their edge for VR performance (when overclocked) in iRacing but for an all around system AMD is where it is at.
In reply to adam525i (Forum Supporter) :
Looks like the Zen 3 AMD processors (the ones that just came out and of course are also scalped unobtanium) now even beat Intel in single thread performance.
Snowdoggie said:That's the point. You can get a Chinese Baofeng ham radio receiver for $30. You can get a cheap android tablet for $50.
Used cheap garbage steering wheels you would never want to buy are still 80 bucks. Cheap electronics should be cheap.
I will probably go out and buy the expensive one eventually, but I will whine about it first. That's just what I do.
What I really want is a formula car simulator that leans like a car leans. I'm sure that's probably out there somewhere.
Yes, there are motion control simulators. But if you think $250 for a wheel is expensive.................don't even bother looking up the motion platforms.
kevinatfms said:...None of them have VIR, Summit Point or Dominion let alone NJMP or Pocono RC.....
Assetto Corsa (PC version) has VIR, Summit Point and NJMP:
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/virginia-international-raceway.11892/
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/summit-point-raceway.29502/
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/new-jersey-motorsports-park-lightning.14212/
I see a request for someone to develop Dominion
One of the nice things about AC is that most of it is user created content, most of which is free. There is an insane number of tracks out there. Some are more basic than others, but should be good for practice / familiarization purposes. Many small tracks in the US and a lot you probably never heard of in Europe and other areas.
Oh man those local tracks (central va) would really sway me into grabbng something. I've got a spare miata seat, spare 42inch tv, and lots of 2x4s and such to build a frame, just need a good wheel/pedal set and choose a platform.
I've got a Logitec Driving Force Pro wheel and pedal combo that I bought for GT3 on my PS2 back in 2001 that still works and I'm trying to get rid of, if anyone in the Austin Texas wants it to try out sim racing. Would rather give it to someone who's going to use it than donating/throwing it away.
In reply to Snowdoggie :
I tried cheap wheels in the past. Trust me, it will ruin the experience. Moving from a $80ish dollar wheel to $250ish wheel was night and day. It made for much enjoyable experience. Spring for the Logitech . . . if you don't like it, sell it for almost the same price you brought it for.
I got started in March with iRacing on a low budget: used G29 and a used business PC with an upgraded video card. This can be done for about $600 and will give a pretty decent experience. For those wondering, it was a Lenovo with an i5-4600 and 16GB RAM. The video card I went with was an RX480. I had monitors already, and ran with triples on my desk.
Over the course of the summer I have upgraded:
1. ricmotec load cell brake mod for G29
2. new system with a ryzen 5 3600x
3. built a cockpit out of 2x4s and a junkyard seat
4. VR
In terms of cost, I look at it compared to the cost of a DE weekend: ~$1000 if nothing bad happens once you figure in fuel, tires, hotel and food. Since I didn't feel comfortable doing any DE's this year, I'm ahead on my "race car budget".
I race in 2 leagues, which is usually 2 or 3 nights a week if my schedule allows for it. I also spend a fair amount of time practicing for those races and occasionally join in some public lobby races. Its really a lot of seat time without any of the prep or repair time that the real cars need. I've convinced a couple of my track buddies to join, so I'm even getting my favorite track personalities.
I'm hoping to upgrade my wheel and pedals in the near future and give my old setup to my dad so that he can join in too.
Thought I would note that in terms of "grassroots" (as in affordable) there is a short term Steam sale going on until December 1st:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/autumn2020_racing_and_sports
It includes some popular titles (not iRacing, sorry, they know what they have). Some of the popular racing games are available:
Assetto Corsa - Ultimate Edition (definitely recommended version, basic is $4) - $8 (probably the most grassroots sim out currently)
Automobilista 2 - $20 (apparently an up and coming sim, but it does have a good amount of paid additional content)
Project Cars 2 - $9.50 (avoid PC3, it's kinda crap compared to PC2)
Heck, even Car Mechanic Simulator (if you want to simulate it rather then just going out in the garage and doing it 
)
If anyone wants to dive into Assetto Corsa, I have some useful links and info in the Sim forum.
Iracing has 50% off new memberships and 25% off renewals of a year or longer through the beginning of december as well.
Snowdoggie said:I thought that I could go out and buy a cheap Chinese made wheel and try it out first, then if I really liked it I would make the $300 investment in a good one. The thing is, unlike in just about everything else including ham radio, I can't find a cheap Chinese knock off. Where is the lower end stuff?
Not popular enough for the makers to go to the trouble of churning out the controllers. Wheels and pedals are complex and take a lot more abuse than controllers and joysticks, and joysticks themselves aren't exactly big sellers these days. I do find it a bit strange that anyone is recommending console-based sims as an introduction because while a wheel/pedal setup may work, the console versions are explicitly designed for controllers and therefore for the more casual/arcade-driving fan. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the experience compared to running it on a PC is quite different. The fact that most people who would be in the market for a wheel are going to be using it with a computer already sets that up as a far smaller market overall to sell to, and the expense compared to an old xbox controller or logitech or ps4 equivalent, which works well enough to pick up and be reasonably competitive, means that the $300~ setup is the lower end.
As an example, Jacques Villeneuve participated in a few of those rFactor 2 charity races earlier this year using an Xbox controller because that's what he's used to using and I think he was in a hotel.
adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:Black Friday sales are starting and a new generation of CPU/GPU's have been released (supposedly, not sure how available they are), it might not be the worst time to pick up a deal either new or used as people upgrade.
From what I've seen, people are still asking stupid money for used 2080 series cards, because the 3xxx cards have been so hard to get.
everything that's releasing is asking over retail prices online for scalping.
everything current gen is still asking near retail for the most part.
lower end stuff is reasonably ish priced.. but still expensive because the market is dumb right now.
Yeah, I'm curious to see what sort of black friday sales there are for complete builds. Last year I bought my current system off of Amazon for just over $1600 CAD (don't tell the partner lol) so it will be interesting to see if that money actually gets you anything better. The build is an i7-9700k (all core overclock to 5.1 GHz), 2070 Super, 16 GB of ram on an Azus motherboard with a bunch of silly RGB fans and a liquid cooler for the CPU, at the time it was about $150 under what I could build it myself for and has ran fine for the past year.
If anything there will probably be some competitive AMD systems available that weren't last year as they had just started releasing their new processors at the time. The intel processors just seam to maybe be holding their edge for VR performance (when overclocked) in iRacing but for an all around system AMD is where it is at.
To answer my own question it looks like the comparable desktop on Amazon.ca for Black Friday this year is an AMD 3800 X with 5700 XT GPU for around $200 less which is about the same value as my system from a year ago. It's a step down in GPU and about par on the CPU (overclocked like mine I think the Intel wins for iRacing specifically but the AMD would be better for everything else). Next year once things settle down a bit I'm sure the performance/$ will go up significantly but for now things don't look like they've changed very much.
This is the best deal for a prebuilt I've seen in a while: https://www.newegg.com/abs-ali462/p/N82E16883360047?Item=N82E16883360047&cm_sp=Dailydeal_SS-_-83-360-047-_-11302020
Its a today only deal, but if you're in the market its one of the few that I've seen with the 3070.
I've been debating about getting a simulator for years, and finally decided to go for it, after spending literally years researching the topic. From what I've gathered, how much is reasonable to spend on a setup is totally dependent on your goals. There are countless stories about people doing incredibly well in sim racing with a bare bones setup, because how fast you get at sim racing is not dependent on how accurately your setup replicates the experience of driving an actual car. But the OP's first post asked about how well practicing on a sim translates to driving a real car on a real track, and for that, my conclusion is that there is no way around spending a lot of money. No sim will reproduce the g forces felt in a real race car, so you have to rely on gear that does the best possible job of replicating the other sensations. So at a minimum, you need a high end wheel base, pedal set, and either triple monitors, or VR. You need a wheel base that gives you the same sensation of kickback and resistance you get when riding the curbs, so at a minimum, you'll need a high end belt driven wheel, like a Fanatec Clubsport, which is around $550. But to really get the purest sense of feedback, nothing compares to a direct drive wheel, so I bit the bullet and went with a Podium DD1, which set me back $1100. For Pedals, the Fanatec Clubsport V3 is a good value at $360, and the performance kit, which gives you the degree of pedal firmness and feel you get in a car, is the best $30 you'll spend on your setup. Nice curved 27" monitors can be had these days for about $220 apiece, plus $350 - 500 for a free-standing stand. I say free-standing, because I also got a Butt-kicker transducer to replicate the vibrations of a race car, included when shifting gears, so if the monitor stand is attached to the cockpit, the Butt-kicker will shake the monitors. A computer capable of seamlessly driving all this is a minimum of $2K, and then there's the cockpit itself. I saved some money here and went with a GTR Simulators GTA Pro, which was only $675, including the seat, and while it's a decent cockpit, it really falls short in the stability of the pedal base, so I had to spend a lot of time figuring out how to reinforce it so it wouldn't flex under hard braking. Someone with decent fabrication skills could probably save a few bucks with a DIY rig, but by the time you pay for the materials (unless you make it out of wood, which a lot of people have done), I doubt you'd save much.
As far as adding motion, that seems to be starting to enter into the realm of reality, too. I've seen reviews of add-on motion systems in the $3K range (vs. $15K and up for earlier generation full motion rigs) that have completely blown away the experienced sim racers testing them, so once I get acclimated to my set-up, that may be something consider at some point down the road, along with VR, once I'm satisfied that technology has sufficiently matured.
Everything I say above is only theoretical, because the completion of my setup was rudely interrupted by the failure of my track car's torque tube bearings, but I should have the rig up and running in the next few days. But this is my first foray into simulators, so I won't have anything to compare it to. But again, from everything I've gathered, if your goal is to get good at sim racing, a very inexpensive, basic system is all you need. Ditto if your goal is familiarizing yourself with tracks you haven't driven on before. But if you want to use your sim as a training tool, including online coaching, you have to invest in a rig that gives you as many of the sensations (short of the g forces) of driving a car in anger on a track as possible, and sadly, that ain't cheap.
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