Today on Bill Tries to do Something Stupid!

If I'm about to undertake something monumentally stupid, please save me from myself.  The son of the landlord for the shop space I lease called me up yesterday because he knew that I did things with cars.  Apparently, he's got a Chevy pickup that needs to have it's engine replaced.  No idea how or why he thinks that so I'm taking it at face value.  He says he's already got the new engine, just needs someone to swap the two.  I told him I could meet him today to talk about it.  Swapping a motor on a Chebby pickup doesn't intimidate me at all.

Since it's parked out at the shop on the other side of the parking lot, I saw it last night.  Mid 2000s I think 2500 with the Duramax diesel.  Is there anything that makes pulling the engine and installing a compatible replacement more difficult than a "regular" pickup? 

Understanding that this is for side money and to ingratiate myself with the landlord, would asking 700 to do the job be a stupid-low amount of money?  Or are there dragons in there which should tell me to run from this at any price?  I'm assuming that his replacement is a long block, but no info on that so far.

Diesels are insanely heavy. It's a two or more man job to reset one because they are crazy heavy. Don't get your hands between the engine and any thing else. 

Other than that, it's a engine swap. 

wae said:Since it's parked out at the shop on the other side of the parking lot, I saw it last night.  Mid 2000s I think 2500 with the Duramax diesel.  Is there anything that makes pulling the engine and installing a compatible replacement more difficult than a "regular" pickup? 

Understanding that this is for side money and to ingratiate myself with the landlord, would asking 700 to do the job be a stupid-low amount of money?  Or are there dragons in there which should tell me to run from this at any price?  I'm assuming that his replacement is a long block, but no info on that so far.

As someone who has done this, with full shop facilities including a lift, I wouldn't touch the job for under $1500 and that is a good buddy deal.  If it's a long block, $2500.  You will have at least 18-20 solid hours of work in it, as opposed to goofing-off having fun relaxing time wrenching on cars hours (which has about a 4:1 ratio to solid hours), and they will be downright miserable hours.

The engine itself weighs about what your Neon does.  You must remove the lower oil pan for clearance to the front axle before the engine has enough room to come out.  (You must also deconstruct the whole front of the truck, which is easy as long as all the bolts come out, but it is very tedious)  The oil pickup will be sitting there waggling unprotected, and the only way to change the oil pickup if you destroy it when reinstalling the engine is to re-remove the engine so you can take the upper oil pan off, which is an engine-out job.

He's right about time consuming. 

The 7.3 we did took 22 hours with 3 guys on it. 

I should be getting ready for work, but pictures.

After the grille, core support, intercooler/condensor/radiator stack have been removed  (back of truck and part of shop stoage shed now full of parts)

Apparently all of the rest of the photos are gone.  I heavily photographized the stripdown of the engine (was pulled to replace head gaskets) because of all of the very specific ways in which the wiring harness was laid out, the fuel injector plumbing, the.... everything else I can't even remember.  Very space efficient, as to be expected of a Japanese design.  (You will see "Isuzu" on everything you touch)

Oh yeah - there are a lot of tools that you will need that you do not have.  If you plan on putting the engine on a stand, you will need to remove the rear block plate (which is also the coolant manifold, and has O-rings all over the place), which the service manual says in big bolt letters is not strong enough to support the engine.  To do this you will need to remove the flywheel.

On reinstalling the flywheel, the torque spec is so high that not only did the bolts laugh at my puny 2135TiMax impact gun, but they also laughed at my breaker bar with an 8' cheater on it.  I only met the angle spec by going around the bolt pattern three times.  Each time I was able to get another 15-20 degrees of torque.  I saw the head of my breaker bar flexing 30+ degrees under the stress.

I still get the jitters thinking about trying to set the rear block plate in place without displacing any of the O-rings, while simultaneously working it over the crankshaft, while the 1000lb monstrosity was swinging on the engine hoist that I'd never seen flex before...

In reply to Knurled. :

That looks much like my Ford shots. 

Yup.

Oh, I forgot the best part - the truck I was starting with already had the transmission removed by another shop, which is when they discovered the coolant leak.  So I was already starting in easy mode.

At least it’s not in a van....

My prob with things like this is, where does it stop?  You have to assume hes right about the truck and the donor motor.

say you swap it in and it does not work for some reason, do you get paid and wash your hands of it? 

Sounds like potential for you getting roped into some BS.  Thats why ive stopped helping people with stuff like that. It usually ended up with me wishing I hadnt got involved.   

Whew, that's a great "learn me" right there, thank you!

A lot of that is what I expected:  not as bad as a van, heavy as hell, pull it out the front.  Sounds like the scale of those things is a lot higher though.  If it's taking you 20 hours in your shop, I've got to be into this for at least 40, and I think I'm being a bit optimistic.  When I first agreed to take a look at this it was a "Chevy pickup with a bad motor" that another guy was going to do for him on the side but is having "health problems".  Now it's a long-bed, crew cab 2500 Duramax.  My guess after hearing all of this is that it's really that the guy underbid and is trying to get out of it.  Best course of action is to go into it with a price that's high enough that if he does agree to it, I can salve my wounds in greenbacks but that he probably winds up walking away from.

Random job like a starter replacement? – sure! (I actually did a starter for my landlord once after her car became stranded at the apartment building)

Brake Job? – sure!

Clutch replacement? – mmmmmaybe, let’s google that guy first.

What I’m reading about above? – NOPE NOPE NOPE

My concern with a large job like this is...When will the owner stop coming back to you for warranty work?

Could be a simple as a bad headlamp bulb.  Since you had the headlamps out recently will he expect you to fix that?  Could be radiator...you had that out.  Could be shifting issues...you had that separated from the engine. Etc.  

I just don't want this goodwill gesture between you and the landlord to become a rift in your relationship when you either have to tell him you will no longer work on it or him accusing you of shotty work.  

Like said above, if it were a one item job like brakes or alternator, etc, but this is so many parts and so many systems.  

In reply to therieldeal :

Funnily enough, I don't see how to do the starter on one without raising the right side of the engine a bunch.

And access to the torque converter bolts is through the starter hole.  Strictly by feel, zero line of sight.

If you have shop space and a lift, pull the cab off.  That's the easier way to change the engine in my experience. 

I think the answer your looking for is no...  If i had a fully equipped shop with a lift, hoists and stands sturdy enough to hold all the heavy bits i still wouldn't do it unless I had the time to spare.  This doesn't appear to be a weekend job for a novice..  It sure isn't a weekend job for a professional.

Engine replacements aren't one offs for a small shop.   We did one as a favor to guy with a school bus even though engine swaps were not our usual work scope.  He was a regular customer for tires, mechanic work, etc. so we bought an engine, one of our mechanics swapped it.   It came assembled with the heads, crank, etc. but no manifolds, valves covers, oil pan or oil pump.      So those parts were just swapped out.  A  new oil pump was installed.

I was in school during the day so missed all the fun.   Old engine was toast, ran without oil and melted it.    New engine put in.  Runs great. Owner paid his bill.  A week later its back, engine melted again.   Mechanic pulled the engine again.  He took off the oil pan, set it on some wooden blocks, and filled it with water.   After a few minutes water started dribbling out a small hole under a flake of loose paint on the lower side of the oil pan.  It was after school hours so I was there watching this happen.  This mechanic was an older guy, very proper, old school, religious man, an elder at his church, etc.  Its the only time I ever heard him curse.

Grandpa had to buy another engine and pay the mechanic to install it. Mechanic was very upset he missed this, was a good guy and worked on it partly on his own time on a Saturday to get it done so it came under the category of stuff happens.. Our shop didn't do engines.   Anyway  this time a new oil pan was purchased and installed.    Being a 1970's school bus with a Chevy small block V-8  with carburetor the swap was super simple, except we lost a lot of money on the job because no one tried to figure out why all the oil leaked out originally.      

You can't half do these jobs to save your friend money, especially if its not your usual bread and butter work.  That's all I have to say about that.

7.3 Powerstrokes can be pulled with the rad out and core support in, IF, you turn the engine 90^ once it's lifted some and free of everything.

On all fullsize trucks I deflate the front tires all the way to do engine work like this. No reason to kill yourself up and down a ladder or step stool.

Knurled. said:

Strictly by feel, zero line of sight.

Thats 90% of all newer cars now. Barely can see it much less squeeze a long 1/2-3/8 extension with a swivel in there anymore.

They are made to be manufactured not repaired.

JesseWolfe said:

If you have shop space and a lift, pull the cab off.  That's the easier way to change the engine in my experience. 

Truth. That's how we do any big Duramax jobs. In fact, right next to me is a 2500HD with cab off because the L5P decided to send rods 7 and 8 through both sides of the block. And Knurled isn't getting about those flywheel bolts. They require Herculean strength to torque. I

I suspect your engine hoist is not tall enough for this job.  Even if it was, it might get pretzeled if it lifts that much weight.

Total false alarm.  It was the other truck that was in the garage.  '96 S10 V6 with the engine already mostly unbolted.  We made a deal that I'll be very happy with.

Hat's off to everyone in this thread convincing me that I will never ever buy a mid 2000's Chevy with a Duramax. Not that I had planned to, but dang!

In reply to wae :

WHEW!

Knurled. said:

In reply to wae :

WHEW!

No kidding. Pretty sure that I could do an engine swap on an S10, and I've never done an engine swap before.