Today's "what car" thread: crapcan racing content

I have a bunch of friends and family members that have expressed interest in crap-can racing, unfortunately most of them are not fluent in manual transmission.

So today's question is: what cars have an automatic transmission that could hold up to a couple of crap can racing events? I'd be willing to change the fluid and filters and even add a trans cooler and synthetic fluid if necessary.

4 cylinder and FWD are preferred but not absolutely necessary.

Faster than dog slow and not miserable to drive would be nice too.

And go!

Right now I'd look for an Escort ZX2 if it met the letter of the rules. They're worth about nothing, are fairly light, parts are still available both in parts stores and the junk yard.

There are others who have more knowledge than I do, but in my LeMons experience, I have seen rather few automatics. They don't stand up to the abuse well. Our Rolls Royce was an automatic, but then again we drove it like...well...a dignified Rolls.

I'm fairly sure there's an early '90's Oldsmobile that runs in the east races that has an auto. They're quick. But IIRC, those guys are GM techs. Beyond that, I don't know of too many non-novelty/dog slow cars that run and are autos.

Can they drive a manual at all? If so, you may want to stick with that, pardon the pun. If you have the right car/gearing you may not need to shift all that much. Both our '89 Civic and "the boat" can be run using nothing but 4th gear at NJMP. Sometimes you need to grab 3rd if you hit heavy traffic, but in a 2 hour stint, I could probably get away with less than 10 total shifts (I don't count, but that's just a guess).

The GM Th125c 3 speed is pretty tough. It's used in most every small front drive of the 80's and early 90's. Or you could use on of the the 70's beasts with a big block and 425c (Eldo, Riv, etc. Bring LOTS of gas.) Big trans cooler is a good idea.

similar to the ZX2 only no zetec content is a BP 1.8L DOHC BG chassis mazda or escort gt. Bonus of being able to use some BPT conversion parts on the cheap after a few races (using the $100 credits) to go turbo down the road without being cheaty.

We run an auto C6 in the LTD. It's a big ancient three speed. With a cooler, it managed quite a few races until we ran it out of fluid during a panicked all-day engine swap.

Other than that, the only thing I can add is that Toyota makes pretty good automatic transmissions. As Gearheadotaku mentioned, front drive GMs are also pretty good. Get one with the 3.8 of some flavor and it would work well, I'd think.

We ran at TH350 in our 78 malibu. Never had a trans issue (did have a big cooler though).

There is a list of values for Chumpcar for every car that has run in the series. Some people refer to it as the shopping list. It is in the appendices of the chumpcar rules.

Look for:

the lowest value car that meets your needs

has a large enough gas tank to go 2.5 hours

has a common bolt pattern

has good parts availability

has decent reliability

Has decent selection of race brake pads

Neon may be the answer to this.

http://www.chumpcar.com/downloads/chumpcar-rules.pdf

Add a cooler and run good quality clean fluid and you shouldn't have a problem. It's one less thing for an overwhelmed rookie driver to pay attention to. I've driven a few autos on track and while I vastly prefer a manual, you're still driving a car fast on track so it's hard to hate on it.

This Infinity has done very well for a vey long time with an automatic. Of course it crapped out at it's first Lemons race (they normally run Chumpcar).

If you want to run Chumpcar I would follow wvumtnbkr's advice above. If you are leaning more towards Lemons consider doing something old and weird and go for the IOE. Then an auto would be in your favor and your team can learn to drive, slowly.

When I think tough and auto transmission I think p71, is there a reason no one has suggested it? Not fwd but they can be had cheap. I'm not privy to the rules of the crap can racing so I don't know what's allowed but that would be my choice given the requirements.

p71s have done well in Lemons, auto trans and all. The faster teams do a manual swap. That could be a growth plan for you - start with an auto p71 and when everyone's comfortable driving on track and managing traffic do a manual swap.

i picked up my 95 Neon for $200 about a year ago... i'm in the process of stripping it down and figuring out things like the wiring right now, and i can tell you that it is pretty damn simple for a modern car.. the engine and trans came out as a unit thru the top with 3 bolts, the wiring harness, fuel line, and drive axles removed.. the whole engine wiring harness comes out of the car in about 10 seconds once you unhook a couple of plugs under the dash..

mine's a SOHC/auto car, but i found a running DOHC/5 speed car that i'm going to pick up for $150 when i have the spare change..

they are said to do pretty well in all the crapcan series, and if something breaks parts are cheap and easy to replace. but you have to find them and get them before the circle track guys get them for their "hornet" class builds..

I agree with a P71 AKA Crownvicamus, I have also seen a Mercedes out there going slower than a dog.

tuna55 wrote: We run an auto C6 in the LTD. It's a big ancient three speed. With a cooler, it managed quite a few races until we ran it out of fluid during a panicked all-day engine swap.

And we're still running that same transmission. Just added fluid, and it worked great! 5 or 6 races now on that stupid C6. Ford sure could build 'em. I think the C4 is pretty tough, too (comes packed behind small block fords).

I'd go find some late 70's Granada or something with an inline 6 and an auto. Or a 302 if you could find it. RWD is much more satisfying.

Mopar 3 speed automatics are darn near bulletproof, too. Look for them in a rusty Dodge Aspen near you!

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I think the C4 is pretty tough, too (comes packed behind small block fords). I'd go find some late 70's Granada or something with an inline 6 and an auto. Or a 302 if you could find it. RWD is much more satisfying. Mopar 3 speed automatics are darn near bulletproof, too. Look for them in a rusty Dodge Aspen near you!

The GM stuff is good, plentiful and cheap also. TH350s are everywhere and are a good trans, the TH400 is a little more rare and expensive but are tough as nails.

Neons were already on my radar screen, I nearly bought a 2 dr 5 speed a few months ago but someone beat me to it.

I hadn't thought about the EGT or zx2 do they have tough transmissions? I know they're one of the best kept secrets in the Econo car world for DD use.

What GM platforms would use the th 125 C transmission mentioned above? I have a feeling that they would fall into the slower than dog slow category, Especially if they're attached to an Iron Duke.

Sorry guys but I have no interest at all in a P-71 or anything with an SBC. SBCs have a bad reputation in crap can racing, and I hate working on mod motors so much that I don't care how good their track record is. If I got a smoking deal on a fully prepped and logbooked P-71 I would consider it though.

I like the idea of a 70s Granada with an I6, or a disco era Mopar with a slant six would be cool too. Finding either of those these days without major rust issues is nearly impossible, And they probably wouldn't be at crap can prices.

How do the Lemons and Chumpcar organizers feel about RWD mini pick-ups? Rangers are pretty robust aren't they?

A Ranger would be an excellent choice. Especially with the 2.3 pinto engine, those were pretty good engines. Although a 4.0 V6 would give lots of straight line smiles.

Late 70's and early 80's RWD Ford and Mopar, especially 6 cylinder models, are around and can be cheap. Especially 4 door variants. I picked up a crashed '82 Mercury Cougar with a strong-running 302 and a T5 for $500, ran and drove. It was a radiator away from being a raceable car. But I just wanted the drivetrain, so the rest went to the crusher, leather seats and all.

I passed on a complete, rust free '81 Cordoba a couple of years ago for $500. 318 and an interior you could eat out of. I just had too many cars. :-)

LeMons organizers love personal luxury cars, like this:

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/4611970407.html

Or this:

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/4653262123.html

Drop in a 318 or 360 out of a truck and go racin'!

I just sent the 300 owner an email last night

Grizz wrote: I just sent the 300 owner an email last night

I think that car is in my neck of the woods, if you need someone closer to you to check it out and take more pics. PM me.

According to the owner, it's near the rt.29 and 70 intersection. If the calls go well I'll try to head out to look at it this weekend.

Rangers have a starting value of $200 for a 2000my. The older ones are 150$. If you get an automatic, you can subtract $75.00 (if you keep the auto).

Your Chumpcar starting value could be as low as $125 for a newish ranger. Keep in mind that it doesn't matter how much you bought it for. It is what the value that is assigned in the link above. You could spend 12K on a PERFECT ranger with 7 miles on it and its value is STILL $125.00 with an automatic.

Lemons is different. They want to see what you spent in real money.

A 2000 ranger with the big engine / automatic and massive weight reduction could be quick.

Add:

Oil Cooler accumulator Trans cooler Bilstein shocks cut stock springs cut / weld suspension to get proper geometry Mustang or RX7 wheels Sticky Rubber (225 45 15 rivals) Good brake pads

Go do well in races!

Rob R.

2wd rangers are around 3100# as far as I can tell. Lose about 250 # and you are looking at 2850. They have about 160 hp stock (225 #ft torque).

Thats 18 lbs per hp. Not horrible. Drop another coupla pounds and it gets more betterer!

I think I like the idea of the ranger build!

16.5 gallon fuel tank on short cab. 20 gallon tank on extended cab.

Either one should be able to get 2 hours of fuel.

Rob R.

wvumtnbkr wrote: 2wd rangers are around 3100# as far as I can tell. Lose about 250 # and you are looking at 2850. They have about 160 hp stock (225 #ft torque). Thats 18 lbs per hp. Not horrible. Drop another coupla pounds and it gets more betterer! I think I like the idea of the ranger build! 16.5 gallon fuel tank on short cab. 20 gallon tank on extended cab. Either one should be able to get 2 hours of fuel. Rob R.

You can do fun things for weight distribution, too. Cut a foot out of the front of the bed and shift the cab back...

Also pretty easy to work on.

This works.

I think a Ranger could survive an off or hard contact better than any of the FWD cars that was considering too. I think I'm onto something

I could see turbo Lima parts finding there way onto it after a few events too