Top 10 Pontiacs?

Since Autoblog managed to screw that one up (big surprise), what is GRM's Top 10 Pontiacs? My list:

55 Pontiac line-up - The introduction of the bespoke Pontiac OHV V8, one of the greatest engines of all time

64 GTO - The original muscle car

04-06 GTO - 4-seater Corvette, never again will we see a "lesser" model with the same HP as a Corvette

08+ G8 GT/GXP - Everything that made the new GTO great in an attractive, and useful, 4-door package

Solstice/GXP - The first real competition for the Miata in both Solo and Club Racing, a real driver's car

97-03 Grand Prix GTP - 3.8L V6 with a supercharger, capable of 12's with bolt-ons, high-20's MPG, and clean styling

93-02 Formula WS6 - While you had to special order a Camaro to get a decent suspension, Pontiac was offering a better one right across the street, and in a no-frills/no-options package light in weight and heavy on fun

2nd Gen Firebirds (70-81) - They single-handily kept the American Performance car alive during the dark ages, and were often faster then same year Corvettes

Turbo Trans Am - Because if the Grand National was awesome, then stealing the engine, making it bigger, and stuffing it into a Firebird was pure lunacy

Original Grand Am - Bringing all of the luxury of the full-size Grand Prix to a mid-size car with actual handling and Trans Am power, the original personal sports coupe (which the M3 later copied )

RIP Pontiac

Your thoughts?

My first love in muscles cars was the '64 GTO in Vert Flavor. I am willing to deal with a non-GTO tempest lemans if it is a 64 'vert. I didn't like it when they went to the stacked headlights.

1955: first year of the V8

1957: introduction of the Bonneville, with factory fuel injection

1961: restyled bodies, the best looking US cars ever built in my opinion (see my avatar, I have one.)

1962: introduction of the Grand Prix

1963: Super Duty 421 Catalinas and Tempests

1964: introduction of the GTO

1965: another restyling, the entire Pontiac lineup was voted Motor Trend car of the year.

1967: introduction of the Firebird

1969: introduction of the GTO Judge, also introduction of the 2nd generation Grand Prix

1970: introduction of the 2nd generation Firebird/Formula/Trans Am

SHAME,, SHAME ,, SHAME,, on the people,, when they lose GM, american racing started with Louis Chevrolet!

SD421 Catalina started in 62 at least (might have even been 61).

The GTO Judge was nothing but the stickers and spoiler. I'll have a plain 69 GTO thank you very much.

I do love me some 61 Pontiac though...

Your list (first post) is pretty good, but I'd probably pull the original Grand Am and stick in an '88 Fiero...I think America's rear engine 2 seater deserves a spot, and the '88 specifically because it dropped a huge chunk of parts bin stuff from econocars and got the suspension and brakes it should have got from the start. Too bad it didn't last a couple more years, it would have finally got an engine it deserved too. I'm completely biased.

Bryce

Swiss Cheese Catalina's

'64 GTO

'89 TTA

'78 Trans Am

'78-'79 Grand Am

Fiero

SLP Firehawks

Banshee

late '80's Bonneville SSE ( always liked the boy racer look sedan)

FWD = NO.

240Hp from 3.8L and a supercharger iis pathetic.

+1 on the fiero and turbo trans am.

anything SD.

Nashco wrote: Your list (first post) is pretty good, but I'd probably pull the original Grand Am and stick in an '88 Fiero.. Bryce

agreed

I don't have a problem with the fwd gtp being on the list. yeah, that's weak hp for a boosted 3.8, I have a VQ, I rag on the gp guys all the time about it. But it is a darn good combination of fuel economy, reliability, and total power (hp AND torque).

1989 pontiac firefly turbo (canadian only model basically a turbo geo metro with better brakes, better interior, hood scoop, skirts, wing etc)

While I realize the Buick (nameplate) is BIG in China, the idiots who decided to "throw Pontiac from the train" instead of Buick.....well, they should be relegated to driving ratty old Yugos, living in government housing, eatting cheese sandwiches as they have no idea of what it takes to keep GM going.

Hey AutoXR, wanna race? What part of 12's with hardly any bolt-ons did you not get?

SD421 Catalina's etc..
'64 GTO
'65 GTO
'69 Trans Am
'70-'71 Trans Am and/or Formula 400
'69 Judge
Royal Bobcat
'69 Grand Prix, 428 4-spd
'73-74 SD T/A
'77-'78 T/A 400 Trans Am

Note: I have a Solstice GXP. I didn't put it on the list.

P71 wrote: Since Autoblog managed to screw that one up (big surprise), what is GRM's Top 10 Pontiacs? My list: 55 Pontiac line-up - The introduction of the bespoke Pontiac OHV V8, one of the greatest engines of all time 64 GTO - The *original* muscle car 04-06 GTO - 4-seater Corvette, never again will we see a "lesser" model with the same HP as a Corvette 08+ G8 GT/GXP - Everything that made the new GTO great in an attractive, and useful, 4-door package Solstice/GXP - The first real competition for the Miata in both Solo and Club Racing, a real driver's car 97-03 Grand Prix GTP - 3.8L V6 with a supercharger, capable of 12's with bolt-ons, high-20's MPG, and clean styling 93-02 Formula WS6 - While you had to special order a Camaro to get a decent suspension, Pontiac was offering a better one right across the street, and in a no-frills/no-options package light in weight and heavy on fun 2nd Gen Firebirds (70-81) - They single-handily kept the American Performance car alive during the dark ages, and were often faster then same year Corvettes Turbo Trans Am - Because if the Grand National was awesome, then stealing the engine, making it bigger, and stuffing it into a Firebird was pure lunacy Original Grand Am - Bringing all of the luxury of the full-size Grand Prix to a mid-size car with actual handling and Trans Am power, the original personal sports coupe (which the M3 later copied ) RIP Pontiac Your thoughts?

A good list, i'm just making one change I'm replacing the turbo TA with the 1986 2+2. While dropping the G/N motor in the Trans Am was a good idea, the failure to add a manual trans was lazy on their part. Add in that it was almost as heavy as the G/N, and with the GNX getting a three link rear suspension, all they really did was offer the GNX in white without a back seat. .

The 1986 2+2, while not even adding the pretend muscle car parts of the Monte SS or the Olds 442, was the last time Detroit released a car strictly to make a body competitve for Nascar racing. Although it was a failure because all Pontiac had left at that time was an outdated Petty team, a young Rusty Wallace, and a couple of backmarkers, it was faster looking than the Monte Aerocoupe of the same year, and produced in much smaller numbers barely satisfying Nascar's requirements

Herb Adams Silverbird running the 303 V8 that was designed for Trans-Am racing (this was the Ram Air V engine in race tune)

The 366 was part of this program as well. Intended for NASCAR competition that never happened.

The OHC Sprint six in anything

The OHC v8 prototypes from the 60's

Shawn

bravenrace wrote: SD421 Catalina's etc.. '64 GTO '65 GTO '69 Trans Am '70-'71 Trans Am and/or Formula 400 '69 Judge Royal Bobcat '69 Grand Prix, 428 4-spd '73-74 SD T/A '77-'78 T/A 400 Trans Am Note: I have a Solstice GXP. I didn't put it on the list.

I have a 72 Firebird, 78 Trans AM SE, and 07 Solstice GXP (soon to be Stage 1) I would put the GXP on the list as one of the best modern offerings along with the G8 GXP. We love ours and another member seems to really like his Sky Redline. For what it is I think it's an excellent car.

I've never been a huge pontiac fan. This isn't to say I didn't like them, they just never caught my attention.

Looking at everyone else's lists, I see why Pontiac is going away: the only cars in the last 10 years to be considered for these top 10 lists are the Solstice and the Holden-based GTO and G8. You don't need Pontiac to sell either of the two of those that are still being made: the Solstice can be found in a more attractive body under a different brand and the G8 would sell better as an Impala (and allow them to toss that horrid excuse of an Impala they have now), or maybe try to bring back Buick's performance image (since they're so keen on keeping the brand) as a Grand National (though I honestly don't think it would sell well AT ALL as a GN).

Actually, I think the G8 body facelifted as a Buick and given a forced-induction V6 would be the first drool-worthy Buick SINCE the GN. Probably get pretty decent mileage, too.

My personal collection:

1958 Pontiac Pathfinder

1973 Formula 350

1980 Turbo T/A S/E

1980 Turbo T/A Indy pace car

1981 Turbo T/A (daily driver)

1984 Fiero Indy Pace Car

All these have -real- Pontiac engines in them except the Pathfinder. Being a Canadian only car, it's got a Chevrolet truck 261 I6

POCI member #64167

Shawn

Imagine the Camaro/CTS's 300+HP Direct Injection V6 with a turbo ala Ford's EcoBoost in the G8, in Black, called the GN. Wicked.

P71 wrote: SD421 Catalina started in 62 at least (might have even been 61).

The super duty program actually started in 1960, with SD389 engines and parts available over the counter but not off the production line. That continued through 1961; there were about a dozen SD421 engines built at the very end of the 1961 production year but they went to guys like Mickey Thompson and Smokey Yunick. It wasn't until 1962 that SD389 and SD421 cars actually came off the assembly line. The SD389 was dropped for 1963, and the SD421 cars were built until about March of that year, when the big GM ban on factory involvement in racing occured. The '63s were the ultimate version of the SD421, with revised heads and intakes, aluminum body parts, plexiglass windows and the few cars that came with the 'Swiss Cheese' frames.

Trans_Maro wrote: POCI member #64167 Shawn

I've been a POCI member since 1982; #9405.

ReverendDexter wrote: Looking at everyone else's lists, I see why Pontiac is going away: the only cars in the last 10 years to be considered for these top 10 lists are the Solstice and the Holden-based GTO and G8.

In my opinion, GM's problems really started in the 1970s and slowly got worse over a long period of time...it's kind of like the old story about if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out. Things were slowly getting worse over the years, but they either didn't react at all or reacted so slowly it didn't help.

Back in the old days, each GM division was distinct from the others. They shared a few common parts like window glass or small bits like door handles, but the chassis, body and drivetrains were all different. Then, in 1977 they downsized the full size cars and put them all on the same chassis; by 1982 they phased out the individual brand engines and were all using 'corporate' engines. They lost their identities and were all pretty much the same car except with different trim.

My all time favorite and the real First Muscle Car

http://bringatrailer.com/2008/11/07/long-lost-racer-1963-pontiac-lemans-super-duty/

That '63 Lemans was pretty much the find of the century. It's in Scott Tieman's restoration shop now. The whereabouts of the car's original aluminum front end and transaxle have been known in Pontiac circles for years; unfortunately the owner of the car and the owner of the parts haven't been able to agree on a price yet, so it may end up with a fabricated aluminum front end and a solid rear axle.

P71 wrote: Original Grand Am - Bringing all of the luxury of the full-size Grand Prix to a mid-size car with actual handling and Trans Am power, the original personal sports coupe (which the M3 later copied )

When you say Original Grand Am do you mean 1973 RWD or 1985 FWD?

One of you commented about louis chevrolet being one of the names that started with racing at the turn of the century. The truth was that his name was bought by GM and when he seen the direction his name was being used he wanted it pulled. Louis chevrolet would love to see them go away if he was with us. He allways seen it as an embarassment.