Total Cost of Ownership (Maintenance and Repairs) up to 150K miles within 2 years.

Hello Team,

I figured I'd give this a shot here since the interwebs seem to only calculate 15K miles a year and only give you a price and not a breakdown of maintenance and repairs.

• Looking to purchase a Fleet of a few hundred cars. I've narrowed it to 5 good MPG makes for high use (100-150K miles in 18 months).
• These cars will run below $12K wholesale price (through our brother Manheim)
• I need to factor in a 3 year cost of ownership and price out projected maintenance and repairs at 15K, 30K, 45K, 60K, 75K, etc.. (Service, tires, water pumps, brakes, etc...)
• If ALLDATA has the OEM's projected mx and repairs broken down by mileage, that would be great.

The cars that have been selected are below and range between 25-40K miles upon purchase. They will still have about 35K miles left on the powertrain warranty.

• 13/14 Toyota Corolla
• 13/14 Nissan Sentra
• 12/13 Honda Civic
• 12/13 Hyundai Elantra
• 13/14 Nissan Versa

I called our Fleet Management company and they don't have that data available. I was referred to a company that purchased vehicles for Fleets. A call to them will go out on Monday.

This data will help me plan out our purchase plan and wholly target these vehicles that can retain their values the most after 150K.

Thanks in advance.

If anyone prefers to mail me directly, please send to richie.lasalsa at gmail.com

Id be real surprised if the fleet companies dont track this type of info.

All cars have common issues. Just look up these cars and what commonly fails and look up repair costs. Find something that has a common (ie: cheap) tire size, look at oil change cost compared to drain intervals, and probably something with a timing chain.

Are you really gonna follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule, very few fleets do. Most of them chain oil, rotate tires, fix whats broken, a few change trans fluid and plugs when recommended, and even less actually follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule.

My gut feeling say sonata will be cheapest but may suck at resale value.

I work at a body shop that is connected to dealerships that sell all of those brands. The techs unanimously feel the Nissans are vastly below the other brands. Can't speak to how well they run but build quality and rust prevention are beneath Toyota and Honda. Hyundai is generally an opinion of indifference.

ddavidv wrote: The techs unanimously feel the Nissans are vastly below the other brands. Can't speak to how well they run but build quality and rust prevention are beneath Toyota and Honda. Hyundai is generally an opinion of indifference.

Second.

Toyotas seem to have the lowest required maintenance. Brakes wear like granite, no glaring issues.

Most modern small cars have very similar maintenance need. In that price range you're looking exclusively at FWD four cylinder cars. Oil change and volume is about the same. Tires are all about the same. It seems to me, the real differences will come in residual value and MPG.
There's also the question of how the drivers treat the cars. I met a guy once who always spec'd his work trucks with a decent stereo and power windows/locks. His guys always felt like they had "nice" trucks and treated them well. He more than got his money back in reduced repairs and higher residual value.

What range would be needed for a cat per a day?

Since you will be buying these used, does that mean they will likely come from rental fleets?
I would bet that Mazda2s and Chevy Sonics could be bought the cheapest resulting in up front savings.
Maint costs should be similar in all brands/models, as commented. I would avoid models with timing belt because at retail, that replacement could run near $1k.

Based on Aussie Steve's experience with his '11 Elantra (first year of current body style) I would have to say, Elantra.
His build thread.
His most recent post states:
Ordered parts today, second set of plugs, cabin filter and first set of brake pads.
Still no failures with 176K on the clock.

That was August. I would bet he is nearing 200k now.

Aussiesmg has been putting that kind of mileage on at least one Elantra, I think.

What's the intended use of the fleet? One of the things that may affect your calculus is the tax treatment of the cars - I believe new vehicles may be more favorably treated in terms of depreciation.

mazdeuce wrote: I met a guy once who always spec'd his work trucks with a decent stereo and power windows/locks. His guys always felt like they had "nice" trucks and treated them well. He more than got his money back in reduced repairs and higher residual value.

I have a customer like that. Had us upgrade the stereos in his plow/lawncare trucks.

I have another customer who had us unplug the A/C compressor and remove the regriferant from his work truck because he didn't want his employees to hang out in a cool truck instead of working. Now that you mention it, his trucks have always been beat up piles of crap, while the first guy's trucks were always nice...

Look harder at the Elantra. I have one. I am putting less miles on it than Aussie, but still mighty high.

Specifically, consider the new price point and the warranty.

They are sub $20K, and come with the best warranty in the business. 5 year 60K bumper to bumper, 10 year 100K mile powertrain warranty.

That's a lot different than you appear to be considering, and might make it worth buying new.

One other caveat- warranties may be restricted to non-commercial usage (I am not sure on this one, but if the warranty is part if the business plan, you'd better know the details).

Knurled wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: I met a guy once who always spec'd his work trucks with a decent stereo and power windows/locks. His guys always felt like they had "nice" trucks and treated them well. He more than got his money back in reduced repairs and higher residual value.

I have a customer like that. Had us upgrade the stereos in his plow/lawncare trucks. I have another customer who had us unplug the A/C compressor and remove the regriferant from his work truck because he didn't want his employees to hang out in a cool truck instead of working. Now that you mention it, his trucks have always been beat up piles of crap, while the first guy's trucks were always nice...

Wow, I bet that guys employees love him. What a dbag

In reply to nepa03focus:

Maybe.

While I've never disconnected the AC in any vehicle, I do have a personal guideline that if I have to spend a lot of time in the truck, I only turn the AC on after working hours on the way home.

In and out of the truck from 100* heat to blasting AC makes it completely impossible for me to work, in fact, it makes me sick. I am better off not having AC so I can acclimate to working in the extreme heat.

Depends on where he is.

I see you live in PA. I used to live there too. My work trucks didn't have AC at all. Does that make me a dbag?

I don't really think there is enough info to pass judgement.

What are you doing with the cars? Rentals? Deliveries? Taxi service?

I'm seeing an increasingly high number of Prius's used as taxis outside of Alaska, I imagine the maintenance is pretty minimal and there's a definitely city fuel economy advantage. It's kind of the prefect car for a taxi service or anything that requires tons of stop and go driving imo...

I sell new Fleet & Commercial vehicles. I cannot imagine that an economy car with 180K miles of mostly fleet use will have a residual value greater than $2500. Less if these go back through the sale (don't forget sale fees of at least $250). I would plan on a best case residual value of $1500.

I hate to say it, but I'd consider a Prius for that kind of work. I don't know why more taxi's aren't hybrids- I'd bet going from a P71 to a Prius makes a huge difference in take home.

In reply to Teh E36 M3:

Apparently, Ford Escape Hybrids are becoming the darling of privately owned taxis. They are tough, ignore-them reliable, save a ton on fuel and brakes, and are big enough to be useful.

That's why I had the Escape Hybrid on my electic list of cars I was looking at. 30mpg, reliable, plus can tow a light car trailer if need be? Sign me up!

They seem to be hovering around $10-12k for the used ones. New... would blow the budget out of the water.

I don't know what you are doing, but I think you'd be better off with 2nd Gen Priuses.

The price point has now dropped below $10K for nice ones. I looked at a dozen or more yesterday for under $7K.

They will last longer, with lower operating and maintenance costs. You can zero them out at the end and not worry about the resale at all.

40% less fuel than most of the cars on your list. Life expectancy of 300K instead of the 200K of your list.

And maintenance is MUCH less. Many have been known to go 300K on their original brake pads.

The one big ticket item you could have is the batteries. But individual cells are now replaceable, and that is very cost effective.

You said you need a 3 year cost of ownership, and that they would drive 100- 150K in 18 months.

That's 240K- 340K at resale ( not 150K like you said).

They have no value beyond scrap.

Hello again team. I'm going to try to answer most of the questions.

I'm the procurement Manager for our start-up. We're going to be putting these cars out for rent to customers to drive with a pretty popular ridesharing company. We foresee our drivers adding at least 5-600 miles a week with a high as 1000. We'll be providing insurance, maintenance and roadside assist for each vehicle.

Residual value after the first year of use is important, but only for forecasting purposes. If the vehicle is not costing us much, it's a keeper for another year or so. After that we decide if we want to consign them or wholesale.

The Jury is still out on the Sentra with us, but the space and legroom is a plus. I picked up a few 2014s with less than 10k for around $12k. Our vehicles are mainly off lease and rental fleets. Some are well taken care of etc.

Can't go wrong with the Civic or Corolla, but the Elantra is a late contender we can buy in bulk from Hyundai finance. The Versa is just one I threw in that we can get cheap.

Our drivers have to take care if the cars or they violate the terms of use and will be kicked out of the program. If pax rate them low they will also be dropped, therefore car needs to remain clean.

I'm a car guy and know how suggested dealers repairs are. Some just want to reel you in and run the bill.

Thanks so far for the responses. I'll compile some notes and look at the inventory that is coming up from the oems.

Check us out at FlexDrive.uber.com

Good Prius' at wholesale are hard to come by at $14k or less. We like the added warranties that come with them.

The 3 year is just for average purposes. I'm looking at 18 months.

Thx.

So you're part of a new taxi/black car service using uber as the parent?

You've got to have a car that people want to rent a ride in for double the rate of a taxi so cheap compacts are probably not the droid you're looking for. It also sounds like you're starting a new taxi company, I'd be very wary with local regs as to what you can and can't offer. Just my WAG...

skierd wrote: So you're part of a new taxi/black car service using uber as the parent? You've got to have a car that people want to rent a ride in for double the rate of a taxi so cheap compacts are probably not the droid you're looking for. It also sounds like you're starting a new taxi company, I'd be very wary with local regs as to what you can and can't offer. Just my WAG...

None of the above brother.

Some people that want to start with Uber don't want to get into a long term commitment on a lease or a finance with money down and depreciation. Some don't have vehicles that qualify on UberX.

That's where we come in. Offering week to week rentals where the driver can just work part time to pay for the vehicle.

We have the ONLY insurance in the Nation that covers ridesharing when you are not on the Uber app.

This is just the entry level on cars. We will go up to full luxury with the same terms after our pilot.

We're the exclusive rental provider for Uber. Atlanta so far. More soon.

Nice.

I realize the Elantra is a late contender, but look hard. It is the largest interior space compact on the market. It's interior dimensions are like a mid sized, while it's maneuverability and fuel efficiency is like a compact.

Aussie and I use them to transport medical patients. Like a taxi, for Doctor's appointments. I have had many 350 lb people in both the front and rear seats without trouble. I have also had a 450 lb man ride in it.

Additionally, the car comes with many modern technologies, like hands free, Bluetooth, and Sirius. Lots of younger people enjoy it too.

Good luck with your business!

M3Loco wrote: Good Prius' at wholesale are hard to come by at $14k or less. We like the added warranties that come with them. The 3 year is just for average purposes. I'm looking at 18 months. Thx.

Look at higher mileage. You can do it with a Prius. A 100K Prius still has 200K in it, and will hold its resale value.

I can buy nearly 2 Elantras for the price of a Sonata.

I have had one client ride who is 6'8", and over 500 lbs, he fit in the car, I have transported many wheelchairs in the trunk, with the trunk closed and personal and vehicle equipment still safely stowed. Mine is manual and has had absolutely zero problems and has never left me stranded. I have always got 40 mpg out of the little stick shift Elantra.

190K will be hit this week.

Based in Ohio, no rust showing, use Mobil One and change it every 7500 miles, drive it like the appliance it is, I don't beat on it but neither do I baby it.

The Elantra is getting higher on my list now.Of the 25 cars I started with in October, I have 2 of them, and a Hybrid Sonata. The Sonata drives really nice..

Thx..