Tow vehicle: how much is enough, and is newer better than bigger?

codrus said:

No, the trailer was loaded with the proper percentage on the tongue, and was within the weight limit for the tow vehicle.  There was some kind of anti-sway thing built into the hitch as well, but I don't know details.

 

 

So, you are saying that the MB WITH a weight distributing hitch AND an anti sway device towing a load within it's rated capability was loaded entirely correctly and yet had 2' worth of sway as it was going down the road?

I'm not doubting you, but that sounds really fishy. 

That kind of sway is almost always attributed to improper loading.

SVreX said:

I'm not doubting you, but that sounds really fishy. 

That kind of sway is almost always attributed to improper loading.

So, you are saying that the MB WITH a weight distributing hitch AND an anti sway device towing a load within it's rated capability was loaded entirely correctly and yet had 2' worth of sway as it was going down the road?

2 feet may be an exaggeration, I didn't get out and measure it.  It was visibly moving side to side, although it mostly stayed within the lane.

The guy who was driving it isn't an idiot, and has done a bunch of towing with a bunch of different vehicles.  He attributed it to the wind.  It *was* significantly windy that day, but the trailer behind the Chevy didn't seem to have the same issue so... I dunno.

I wonder if the aero off a truck vs an SUV type thing makes a different when dealing with enclosed trailers? Just a random thought. 

Consider your terrain.  My 2005 5.3 1500 Avalanche (aka suburban with the roof chopped off behind the seats) had the optional 4.10 gears and tow package, making it one very highly rated(for the time) half ton at 8,000 pounds tow capacity.  I hooked it up to 6,000 pounds of 14 foot enclosed trailer for the 2015 challenge.  On the way up the big mountain in West Virginia, both ways, it was in 2nd screaming to maintain 45 with my foot trying to push through the floor.  Same mountain, the cummins ram that replaced the Avalanche, with the new 28 foot enclosed trailer, never came out of 6th gear to maintain 70mph.  

I’ve been accused of going overkill on the truck, but i think it’s just right for when i throw 12k behind it and hit the mountains. 

I'm weird with overkill.  I love overkill, but also think it's, umm... neat to test limits and see how things do.  I had a 73 Impala that I used to beat the snot out of just to see where it would fail... including towing 12,000 lbs with it; 4000 lbs worth of 32' steel trailer with an 8000 lb midsize tractor on it.  It was awesome in every category except sway and suspension.  Air shocks at max, 255/75-15s at max pressure, and it still punished the bumpstops.  Glad I was only going 40 miles and no one died.

Overkill is perfect for me when I'm towing long distances.  Towing a 5k trailer with an F350 powerstroke is like driving just a truck.  You almost forget there is a trailer.  Stretching the limits is neat for a trial, kinda like getting new tires and finding some deep snow to see how they do, but for real towing, overkill is the key.

Across town... use a Tercel.  Across the state, use a Trailblazer.  Across the country, use a late model F150.

In reply to Nate90LX :

How about a V8 Pathfinder? Titan drivetrain in a mid sized SUV, should have no problems towing within its 7000lb. rating. Smaller than a full sized truck or SUV but can tow most of the same loads. The downside it that it only gets big truck gas mileage. 

Are you planning on buying a trailer or renting as needed? If renting, be aware that most rental companies have their own databases and don’t really care about the trucks factory rating, they are usually more strict. They may not rent to you if your truck/load combo is not to their requirements. 

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

I have looked at the specs on V8 Pathfinders, and they would be a decent choice. But at that point why not get an Armada for the same price or less on the used market? 

Long term, I plan to buy a trailer, but I might rent first.

On the topic trailers, it looks like it could be hard to find a 1500 lbs (empty weight) trailer that can haul a 3500 lbs car. Is there a source for low weight steel trailer. I know there are multiple aluminum options with prices north of $5k. 

In reply to Nate90LX :

https://www.trailex.com/products/pc/Small-Sportscar-Trailer-CT-7031-p43.htm

I like these trailers! When I decide to go to a full trailer this is the one I'll get, a bit spendy, but very light!

Renting from uhaul is a good option until you know for sure, but keep in mind their car trailers are pretty heavy (2200lbs I think?). Personally, I love tow dollys, they're not perfect for "all the things" - but I have this one:

https://cartowdolly.com/

and it store vertically in my garage so it takes up virtually 0 space. It has surge brakes, etc. I can tow it with my CX-5/Excursion/etc.

ultraclyde said:

I'll share my experiences over the last 3 years towing a 15' boat on a trailer that weighs maybe 2k wet and loaded. No trailer brakes.

1996 F250 powerstroke, extended cab, long bed auto. 23x,000 miles, 4500lbs, 144" wheelbase, rated for 10k towing. Towed the boat fine in OD at 65 but easily kicked out of OD at the slightest rise. Got about 13mpg towing. Brakes were freshly rebuilt and still terrifying. Slid the truck through a traffic light with the boat behind it.

1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee, V8, 4x4, 3800lbs and rated to tow 7500lbs. Wheelbase around 100"? The jeep worked hard to maintain 65-70 with the boat but would do it out of OD. Loud and big rpms to get the job done, 9mpg. Stability was good but not as good as the 250 although the ride was better. Brakes were better than the 250 but not great. Pulled up steep hills at low speed better than the 250.

2013 Ecoboost F150 crew cab short bed. 6500lbs, rated to tow 9750lbs I think. 145" wheelbase. Boat? What boat? Knocks down 13mpg with the cruise set at 70. Quiet, composed, blissful. Brakes stop the same as without the trailer. 

 

I think newer trumps size for the most part. If nothing else the braking systems are that much better. I know the 7.3 strokes are supposed to be gods own tow pig, but I couldn't imagine towing heavy loads with it. 

I think a lot of poor Powerstroke performance on the 7.3 can be chalked up to leaky up-pipes.  After 100k or so miles, most will disintegrate right in your hands.  And from the cab you never even know its leaking.  Most do a whole lot better when all the exhaust gasses are passed through the turbo instead of sprayed across the back of the engine and firewall.    

In reply to accordionfolder :

Wow, I knew those Trailex trailers were light, but I never knew less than 800 lbs. That might let me pull the Miata with the Sienna, hummmm....

In reply to Nate90LX :

https://www.trailex.com/products/pc/Midsize-Sportscar-Trailer-CT-7541-17p46.htm

The next one up (which allows up to 4100lbs) is only 850lbs itself - though cost goes up as well (but from what I understand resale also goes with it).... But yeah, I love the idea of those trailers, just not enough room or desire to pull the trigger yet. I've seen them in person pulling a lot of nifty cars at Barber and RA. 

In reply to accordionfolder :

Where's a price on these things? 

In reply to yupididit :

The asking price for used Trailex trailers appears to be $4500 up to $7000. 

This is a bit much, as I was hoping to get a trailer in the $2000 range.  Are there any 1500 lbs trailers in that price ballpark?

In reply to Nate90LX :

$4000-$7000 goodness. Hardly worth it if that's used prices. I bought my trailer brand new for under 3k. It weighs about 1900lbs .

yupididit said:

In reply to Nate90LX :

$4000-$7000 goodness. Hardly worth it if that's used prices. I bought my trailer brand new for under 3k. It weighs about 1900lbs .

A trailex trailer is really REALLY light.  AIUI, they're made of bolted aluminum, rather than being welded together.  This means that the aluminum retains its heat treatment, meaning it's much stronger and you don't need as much of it.

In reply to codrus :

I understand that. But those trailers don't seem to be worth it in this quest with this budget. 

http://www.econotrailer.com/Open.html

1451lb trailer. 7k GVWR. 15ft length. Sounds perfect for your needs at around $2500

Aluma is another good option for a light trailer. Tend to cost less than the Trailex.

In reply to Nate90LX :

Nobody has mentioned it yet, so I will. Whatever you buy you have to live with.  A big long truck and trailer combination may not be a bother in a rural environment where there is plenty of space and a barn to store it in, but a city guy will hate it!   

Same thing with a well used truck and trailer.  Maintenance might be straightforward but it takes time.  Time given to that has to come from someplace and normally your family winds up the loser.  Which is too bad!  

On the other hand new/newer requires payments which comes from working and if you are already racing. Well, something has to give.  

In reply to accordionfolder :

That cartowdolly could get me in a lot of trouble. 

Not sure about weight, but there are a seemingly endless supply of 16-18' diamond-plate deck car trailers with ramps for $2250 new.  A few years ago I bought a used version of something like this for $1000.  The one in the link likely weighs around 2k, as it lists the payload at around 5000 and it has two 3500-lb axles.

Cheap, light, and quality.  Pick two of those attributes.  Unlikely you'll find all three qualities in one trailer.

In reply to Curtis :

It looks like there are limited options in the 1500 lbs range for steel trailers, although I found multiple examples with steel rails and open centers. It will have to be 16’ or less, which shouldn’t be an issue for sub 3500 lbs vehicles. I also see 14’ and even some 12’ car haulers. Is that too short for car hauling. I’d say the largest vehicle would be a Foxbody wagon (I really want one). 

Curtis said:

Not sure about weight, but there are a seemingly endless supply of 16-18' diamond-plate deck car trailers with ramps for $2250 new.  A few years ago I bought a used version of something like this for $1000.  The one in the link likely weighs around 2k, as it lists the payload at around 5000 and it has two 3500-lb axles.

Cheap, light, and quality.  Pick two of those attributes.  Unlikely you'll find all three qualities in one trailer.

Spot on, sports cars are not heavy luxury cars that require a big long deck to do the job.  Sure you can go fly fishing with 50 pound test line and never lose a fish, but where is the skill in that?  Plus then you have to lug that heavy equipment around.  

Small light and strong enough to do the job. It’s call efficiency. People can take pride in doing the job well. For the same reasons we don’t race  4 door Cadillac Sedans is the reason right sizing is important in truck and trailer selection.  

In reply to Nate90LX :

Where are you finding 12 or 14 foot car haulers? My old trailer (1995) may get replaced and I don't need 18 feet.

Nate90LX said:

In reply to Curtis :

It looks like there are limited options in the 1500 lbs range for steel trailers, although I found multiple examples with steel rails and open centers. It will have to be 16’ or less, which shouldn’t be an issue for sub 3500 lbs vehicles. I also see 14’ and even some 12’ car haulers. Is that too short for car hauling. I’d say the largest vehicle would be a Foxbody wagon (I really want one). 

 

Are you talking like a Fairmont wagon?  I would think 16' minimum.  It's not just about if it fits, it's how much vehicle is hanging over the tongue allowing for turns without contacting the tow vehicle, it's getting the vehicle properly placed on the deck for weight distribution, etc.  You can probably physically FIT a fox wagon on a 12' deck given it's 9' wheel base, but its length is 16' 8".  That means you'll have almost 5 feet of car hanging over the front and/or rear of the deck.  The other thing to think about is how you'll tie it down.  With a 12' car hauler, you have to tie the car to the deck underneath the car.  With a longer trailer you have space front and back to tie to without reaching under a potentially low-clearance vehicle.

I know you're trying to make this fit in a certain space and be as unobtrusive as you can, but in my world there are few things more frustrating than not having enough of something.  I'm still reeling going from my 8' bed to a 6' bed, but a lumber rack will solve most of that issue.  If you get a 12 or 14' trailer, then you can almost guarantee one day you'll find a sweet deal on a car that doesn't fit on your trailer.

Here is my advice.  I fully understand that you don't want to have a big, purpose-built tow rig and a large troublesome trailer, but sometimes it's just necessary.  I'm the king of coming on here and asking how to do the impossible.  What you're asking isn't impossible by any means, but my advice is to bite the bullet and get what works or you'll find yourself unhappy with your choice.  I would say you should find an inexpensive 16' steel trailer and then in your tow rig search just up the needed tow capacity by another 500lbs.  If you can deal with the size of something like a Trailblazer, an Explorer, or Durango, you'll have enough tow capacity with plenty to spare for that one time you find a free Cadillac on craigslist.  Finding the tow rig with enough capacity is the easy part in the ranges of weights you plan to tow, so I would worry less about the dry weight of the trailer.

For me, a full deck is an absolute must.  If you get an open deck with runners, you are getting a purpose-built, one-trick pony.  As Alton Brown would say, it's a uni-tasker.  For the extra few pounds of a full deck (wood or steel) you will find yourself in a blissful world of opportunity and possibility where unicorns eat from your hand and chocolate has no calories.  Need an engine and don't want to get your SUV filthy?  I have a trailer for that.  Realize that it's $200 cheaper to buy a scoop of mulch for your landscaping instead of the bags from the store?  I have a trailer for that.  Want to go with a buddy to the mountains and ride ATVs or snowmobiles?  If only I had a trailer that.... oh wait, I DO.

Seriously.  Unicorns and chocolate.  Don't get picky about pounds.  Buy it, tow it, done.