Toyobaru: Magic or Smoke and Mirrors?

And AE86 is directly connected to InitialD how? That's the older car and how I've known it since almost the beginning.

All the cool kids called it the AE86 to show how "in the know" they were.

I thought it was more Gran Turismo than Initial D.

Although, the AE86 played prominently in GT because of Initial D, allegedly.

I have a slightly different spin on what most of you already said.

I can't tell you where exactly in the great hype train I first became aware of the twins. But I know 4 things stuck in my head. 2000 lbs (claimed at the time) RWD, and a subi engine. I immediately thought that surely it would at least have a wrx type, 265 hp, and maybe if the gods smiled the sti 300+ version, and 25k price.

I was totally geeked, I think ALL of us would be universially geeked if that was the car we could buy.

Now I think the real genius of this hype machine was stringing out that initial picture over several years, with small little bumps, oh, first 2200 lbs, then a non turbo engine, then a 2400 lbs, then no turbo,(yet) then 2600 lbs. The thing was it was never one killer blow that drove off the interest, just a slow protracted project creep to from the dream to the final project.

It wasn't like the prowler, where (as my bad memory serves) they show a awesome looking prototype, but no info on the actual engine, etc. Then the next thing you hear is this cool concept will have a freaking 250 hp v6. In one fell blow they killed all the interest.

carguy123 wrote: And AE86 is directly connected to InitialD how? That's the older car and how I've known it since almost the beginning. All the cool kids called it the AE86 to show how "in the know" they were.

The AE86 is the hero car of InitialD. Heck, InitialD is basically the story about how nothing can possibly be faster! If it wasn't for InitialD, you'd still be able to pick up a Corolla GTS rustbucket to build a Locost for $300.

icaneat50eggs wrote: I can't tell you where exactly in the great hype train I first became aware of the twins. But I know 4 things stuck in my head. 2000 lbs (claimed at the time) RWD, and a subi engine. I immediately thought that surely it would at least have a wrx type, 265 hp, and maybe if the gods smiled the sti 300+ version, and 25k price.

But I read those specifications, and they seem totally outside the realm of reality. It's essentially a Lotus Elise for half price with 60 bonus horsepower. I wouldn't believe that new Ferarri Italias are given away with every Whopper value meal, even if I heard it from the Burger King himself.

OH, I'm not saying I believed it, but on the "what if" level it peaked my interest. I didn't figure they'd hold to any of the original items, so I'm actually impressed by them sticking with the price point. But if they would have said 200 hp, 2600 lbs and 25k, It wouldn't have gotten all the attention and wishful thinking that this did.

Perhaps it is just my selective memory, but I never remember Toyota, Subaru, or Scion saying anything except "Lightweight, rwd coupe." The rumor mill is unregulated and subject to distrust.

Am I the only one who had no clue what that initial d thing was about?

GameboyRMH wrote: Four things: 1. They promised a successor to an icon. 2. They promised this product from before the competition came out with similar things. 3. They overpromised (basically that the car would weight a sportbike-with-a-fat-dude-on-it less than it does...even in GT5 the FR-S concept was 2000lbs!) 4. They delivered a product that is at least on par with the competition so those promises weren't horribly unfulfilled.

I am curious how this was promised before the Hyundai Genesis coupe? Or are you taking the previously held belief (but now it is changing) by the Japanese that anything the Koreans do doesn't count?

Actually I think they look very similar in person. All this is moot because I can't fit in either one, but seriously, I think this is Toyota marketing hard at work to ignore the one truly direct competitor the Subayota has in the U.S.

2010 Hyundai vs 2013 Toyaru. They just look like a mid model refresh of the same model to me.

Am I the crazy one on this one?

I dunno. Other than the upper arc of the side window and the fact that they're both silver hatchback coupes, there's not much in common to me. That comparison definitely shows off how low the hood is on the Frisbee though.

Heya, just a little input from a bald, middle-aged guy.

If you're in the "what's an Initial D" camp and saying that with the same kind of pride I sometimes say "I haven't heard a single song in the top 10 right now" do yourself a favor. Check it out. Watch it with an open mind as if you're the first person to ever discover it. It's actually pretty cool. I got way hooked.

Hey, man, you don't have to tell anyone. It's like not telling your hipster friends that you kinda like Cold Play.

And it's not really about how nothing is faster than an 86. It's more about a kid who's dad taught him to drive fast kind of surreptitiously. Then the kid found out that he could win these races, even though he wasn't all that into the whole thing. Then, slowly, he kind of realizes he does love it.

The 86, through the whole thing is regarded as a car that shouldn't be able to beat anything, but it does, not because of it's amazing attributes, but because of the kids natural ability. When he inevitably wins, his competition invariably says something like "I can't believe I lost to an old 86!"

Kinda like a good driver in a Miata beating a Corvette. If you get past the generational baggage, it's the kind of stuff GRMers should love.

I've only followed the car for about 2 years, initially interested because, hey Toyota was finally going to do a lightweight, RWD coupe again... But I blame Chris Harris for the frenzy on this car just before it's release and for getting my interest totally re-piqued. Couple that with it's a new Toyota sportscar with a Boxer motor... so the current bland Toyota appliance stranglehold has been broken in a very different than normal way. Then factor in the FRS commercial. So yeah I had to test drive it, and the test drive led to an immediate buy. Currently it's the fastest selling car...I think average stay on dealership lot is 4 days...Subaru can't make enough of the cars to meet demand and there is a huge backlog, some pre-order's won't be met until next year.

But the car is mostly deserving of this attention; like the old BMW slogan "own one and you'll understand..." The stock suspension on this car combined with it's CG and drivetrain performs so much better on track than I could get out of my track prepared 98' hardtop V6 Camaro (~3200lbs) or '90 Integra RS (~2300lbs) with some radical improvements.

I originally was thinking of maybe getting an NC miata, the only one I could fit in stock (I've been in an acquaintance's NA Spec Miata and fit okay) - but I really do not like convertibles and the styling is lacking (much prefer the NA looks). Miata is a fun car...but is not really a daily driver. FR-S is much more of a daily driver, being a coupe with SPACIOUS interior room (some of the best stock seats ever put in a car as well for my 6'2" self, even 6'7" 350+lb guy like it's space and comfort!) and very adequate cargo room (even if not a hatchback, the trunk is of a good size and the rear seats fold down completely flat to give quite a bit of room) - all while being about the size of an NC Miata. The Genesis is a like a large family car in comparison, and it has even less interior room for the driver than a Toybaru. And the Toybaru is an excellent Interstate cruiser as well... super comfortable for travelling long distances on the road.

I went from passing interest to actually being nearly 100% sure I was going to get an FR-S as my new daily driver because of the internet reviews and videos of it...test drive was just verification of "teh Hype" and tracking it was confirmation that this chassis stock is so much beyond anything out there that is affordable... totally neutral with sticky tires!

What got me interested is it's the first sub 3000lb rwd car that is remotely practical to come along in at least a decade. And sorry, I don't consider 2 seat convertibles to be practical cars. Sucks that it's 200lbs heavier than a miata, but it's also 500+ lbs lighter than the other rwd 2+2s

I still wish it had pop-up headlights.

icaneat50eggs wrote: Am I the only one who had no clue what that initial d thing was about?

Thanks...I thought it was another car that I had missed.

I have to agree that the media and awarness is pretty contained within the "Car Guy" media. There are websites dedicated to the car, all the magazines have driven it and boards such as this keep it on the radar as we are doing now.

I suspect that pitching this car in the mainstream media would be a waste of money because it is aimed at so few people.

Personally, I think that scion -toyota -subaru has shown brillance in the marketing of this car. They created a niche appliance, made us (the niche) aware of the project and nurtured the flames with tantalizing development leaks/updates. We pretty much did the rest of the work for them by fanning the flames and spreading both rumor (2000 lbs and 20k price!) and gospel (RWD Hurray) amongst the faithful. The inevitable battle of loyalty (Mustand rule all others drool!) is noise that is more welcome than not because for every person arguing the superiority of their brand, there is another person posting the virtues of the twins.

The aftermarket also seems unussually well prepared to receive this car. Were they primed and given inside info/acess so as to be ahead of the curve? That would be brillant on the manufactureres side.

I hope the car achieves critical mass by being a hit in the used car market. It could do that since it is a hair more practical than a Miata and much cheaper here in Canada. Spec TWIN should start in what, 9 years or so if all goes well?

Derick Freese wrote: I still wish it had pop-up headlights.

SO... Toyobaru promised this car before 2007? THats when Hyundai released the Gen Coupe concept that they were developing. here;s the press release: http://www.autobytel.com/auto-news/features/concept-cars/hyundai-genesis-coupe-concept-preview-4094/

Looks like they came out 2 years later as a response to Hyundai's Gen Coupe to me : http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/06/toyko-2009-preview-toyota-ft-86-concept-brings-back-the-hachiro/

But what would I know. The Koreans have never been a leader in anything and they always copy others, right?

I tend to view everything with skepticism, so I never believed much of the hype. Most of the info I got about the car was through here and the daily Autoweek emails I get.

I find the car interesting from an enthusiast's point of view, but never really considered buying one.

I've known about Initial D for years, but have never seen it.

Im still a little bit concerned that we are bellyaching about the MARKETING strategy of a company who FINALLY GAVE US A SPORTY, AFTERMARKET SUPPORTED, RWD, SPORTY, RELATIVELY LIGHTWEIGHT, SPORTY, HI-PO CAPABLE, SPORTY, CAR...THAT IS SPORTY.

I mean seriously guys, wtf? WHO THE HELL CARES...at least they are selling, to the U.S. no less - we never get the good stuff. At least its here, well received, and available. Who cares what Gimmickry they used? I dont care if they snuck into my bathroom while I was showering, and inserted ads into every magazine in the rack - as long as I like it, it makes sense, and I can afford it, it works for me.

Jeff wrote: Other than us and a few hundred thousand car geeks online, how big a splash has this made? I don't see any print or media ads outside of car related publications.

I've seen the TV ads quite a bit. But the TV ads didn't start until the cars were actually at the dealers.

4cylndrfury wrote: Im still a little bit concerned that we are bellyaching about the MARKETING strategy of a company who FINALLY GAVE US A SPORTY, AFTERMARKET SUPPORTED, RWD, SPORTY, RELATIVELY LIGHTWEIGHT, SPORTY, HI-PO CAPABLE, SPORTY, CAR...THAT IS SPORTY. I mean seriously guys, wtf? WHO THE HELL CARES...at least they are selling, to the U.S. no less - we never get the good stuff. At least its here, well received, and available. Who cares what Gimmickry they used? I dont care if they snuck into my bathroom while I was showering, and inserted ads into every magazine in the rack - as long as I like it, it makes sense, and I can afford it, it works for me.

Maybe you should read the first post. If you did, you might realize that the marketing was mentioned in a positive way.

icaneat50eggs wrote: Am I the only one who had no clue what that initial d thing was about?

I didn't either....I kept thinking it was a band or something and had no idea how it tied into the Toyota.

Zomby Woof wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: Im still a little bit concerned that we are bellyaching about the MARKETING strategy of a company who FINALLY GAVE US A SPORTY, AFTERMARKET SUPPORTED, RWD, SPORTY, RELATIVELY LIGHTWEIGHT, SPORTY, HI-PO CAPABLE, SPORTY, CAR...THAT IS SPORTY. I mean seriously guys, wtf? WHO THE HELL CARES...at least they are selling, to the U.S. no less - we never get the good stuff. At least its here, well received, and available. Who cares what Gimmickry they used? I dont care if they snuck into my bathroom while I was showering, and inserted ads into every magazine in the rack - as long as I like it, it makes sense, and I can afford it, it works for me.

Maybe you should read the first post. If you did, you might realize that the marketing was mentioned in a positive way.

Oh, I read it, and I think the OP is right, it is interesting how fast the poularity of this car exploded.

I am referring to the folks who are getting all up in arms about the "sneaky marketing conspiracy" undertaken by 'yota.

4cylndrfury wrote: I am referring to the folks who are getting all up in arms about the "sneaky marketing conspiracy" undertaken by 'yota.

Which people are those? I don't see that.

They got my attention when the top brass at Toyota made a very public commitment to deliver an inexpensive, lightweight, no-frills sports car.

Toyota made me believe that they are passionate about the car. If that's just a byproduct of slick marketing, then job well done....I want to believe it, though.