When Ford decided to take on Ferrari, it worked with a partner.
When Ford decided to take on Ferrari, it worked with a partner.
In reply to te72 :
As someone who owns two modern BMWs out of warranty, they are not the nightmare every claims they are. My wife bought an E70 X5M in 2020 with 65K on the clock; she put 45K miles on over two years without a single issue. My E60 M5 has been just as reliable but with far fewer miles over the last year (maybe 10K from 70-80K). Toyota could either ask the kings of the inline 6 for help or never release another Supra. They chose the former and made an incredible car. Sounds like a good thing to me.
In reply to SupraFiend :
All new vehicles, regardless of the manufacturer, are extremely reliable. Until they aren't.
Maybe I'm getting old, and my eyesight is going bad, but I can't see anywhere in 350's post about buying a 2020 BMW.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
Lola? I meant to say that they intended to become partners to develop cars together.
In reply to 350z247 :
If there's one thing about Supra owners that may or may not be known, we like to tinker. I'm sure a modern BMW, left completely alone and maintained to a rigorous schedule, is probably reasonably reliable. Maybe all the horror stories are from people who don't fall under that description. Or they're from the service technicians I've heard over the years, but it definitely put up a bunch of red flags for me.
As for "kings of the inline 6" I mean... really? I'm aware of the old E36/46 guys back in the day made some very impressive numbers thanks to HPF back in the day, but I don't think I've ever heard someone freak out about a BMW. Stick a JZ in just about anything and you get a reaction, for better or worse.
Again though, Toyota didn't NEED help, not a bit. Even Mazda, strapped for R&D cash MAZDA, is making an inline 6. All Toyota would have needed is the will to do it.
In reply to te72 :
I think he means Shelby American.
But Ford also partnered with Holman & Moody and Alan Mann Racing.
In reply to te72 :
BMW has been continuously making incredible inline sixes since the 1970s (and even before that). The M1, E28/E34 M5s, E36/E46/F30 M3s, 1M, even the M54/N52 from the regular Z3/E46/E39s and Z4/F10/F30s were incredible. Toyota has made really 3 inline sixes worth talking about. The 2JZ has it's place as does the RB26 and a few Merc and domestic motors, but BMW is the king of the inline 6.
In reply to SupraFiend :
2008 and 2010 do not equal 2020...same goes for my old 2000 and 2001 BMWs. Or my brothers 2008 and my mothers 2001.
In reply to 350z247 :
From a standpoint of proliferation I can see your point, but I was talking about sheer performance potential. In my experience BMW's are best left as they were out of the factory, lest you significantly shorten the engine's lifespan. Meanwhile there are countless modified Toyota inline 6's running double or more their stock power, reliably, for decades.
For what it's worth, Toyota made inline six engines from the 1960's through to I want to say 2007 or so.
In reply to j_tso :
I was thinking about Lola, but the bigger point is that so many cars–race and street–come from partnerships.
Several years ago, I was visiting Dodge and they asked, Hey, wanna see where we build the Viper Comp Coupes?
Sure.
We arrived at a Roush building.
I thought they built Fords, I said.
They'll build anything if you pay them, was the reply.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
In 1988, I worked for Prototype Automotive Services, South for their IMSA Firestone Firehawk team. When we took a trip up to Farmington Hills, Mi. to the parent shop, they were working on products for GM and Ford. I seem to remember something about an IRS for Ford (I'm a big GM guy, so I didn't really care at that age), and a lot of forced induction stuff for Pontiac, namely the 20th Anniversary Trans-Am and a turbo Bonneville SSE (which later became supercharged before public consumption). Ford had no problem coming to them, even though we ran Pontiacs for several years, because they kept their mouths shut and did damn fine work. And PAS kept their mouths shut and did damn fine work, because that kept the contracts (and money) coming.
In reply to 350z247 :
Jag and their Le Mans winning inline 6's might want to talk to you about that.
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