Toyota Starlet???

sobe_death wrote: Found this one locally. Not quite challenge priced, but nearly. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/1575462990.html

Oh my. Fix it, drive it, change shorts.

dammit, guy still hasn't emailed me back. Or the guy I emailed about the '82 corolla. I hate dealing with people on CL......this happens constantly. They're happy to post a car for sale, but the moment you want to "know more" about the car or get a half-decent non-cameraphone pic of it, they never get back to you.

4AGZE Turbo, hmm one or both?

aussiesmg wrote: 4AGZE Turbo, hmm one or both?

Probably 4agze with supercharger removed, turbo added.

irish44j wrote: One is on CL locally...in what appears to be pretty pathetic condition....

Unfortunately, 99 percent of the remaining cars are in pathetic condition. They were bought originally by people with no money and neglected for the most part by the original and subsequent owners. Two or three years ago, a low-mileage version in nice original shape went for $5000 on eBay.

Getting 100hp out of that motor requires doubling the original 53 hp. The heads don't flow (non-crossflow) and no good cams are available. There was a Mikuni setup available once upon a time but super-scarce. Corolla rear ends were a favorite swap. The rear end ratio goes from stock 2.93: 1 to 4.56: 1.

I bought one at a police auction for $200.00. Drove it for three years. Got 26mpg sitting in LA city traffic and 38mpg driving it 80 mph on the highway. The air conditioning even worked but you lost five mph every time the compressor kicked in at 80mph on the highway. It's definitely a "momentum" car.

Just to add to what others have said, they are tiny, lightweight, slow, surprisingly practical, and have the potenitial to be a lot of fun.

Mine was easy to drive at what felt like it must be 8/10ths or so and I didn't really stick out from modern traffic. Given enough room to get up to speed, it was fairly easy to do 80mph and I rarely got worse than 30mpg. I could get over 40mpg on the highway fairly easily. The light weight, short wheelbase, great turning radius, and skinny tires made it lots of fun to hustle and toss around. Once I put 13" A008R's on it (yes, I owned this car a while ago!) it could corner a lot harder and became a bit twitchier at the limit...a suspension upgrade was in order with the sticky rubber.

In terms of driving experience, think of it is a slightly older RWD Geo Metro, and you get the rough idea. In terms of mechanicals, think of it as a slightly more reliable LBC, or comparable to a Datsun 210 and you get the rough idea.

The long-term plan for mine was 4A-G twincam with the T-50 transmission and Corolla GT-S disc brake rear axle. I was also going to put the AE86 GT-S struts up front (easy but not quite bolt-on) for bigger brakes and was going to try for a rack+pinion setup, but hadn't worked out the steering details. Sadly, I sold it and picked up another Corolla instead.

With Corolla mechanicals the performance should be ahem..."adequate" for a 70's/80's econobox!

In reply to ae86andkp61:Any more info on how to put the AE86 stuff up front? What's needed, and what needs modifying? THX

The basic layout/architecture between the two cars is the same, and the rough dimensions (like overall strut length and strut top) are in the same ballpark, but they use different small details and specific measurements in some areas. The two cars have different balljoints, and a different spacing between the mounting holes between the bottom of the strut and the steering knuckle. You have to decide where the Corolla stops and the Starlet starts. If you just use just the Corolla strut, you need to find a way to attach the AE86 strut to the KP61 steering knuckle. Otherwise you find a way to attach the AE86 steering knuckle to the KP61 balljoint.

Here is a pic of my AE86 steering setup totally disassembled just before a rebuild. Of interest is the knuckles (lower right corner and lower left corner.) The skinny end has a hole for the outer tie rod, and the fat end has three holes, two to attach to the bottom of the strut (these are spaced differently Corolla to Starlet) and the one in the middle of the three attaches to the balljoint. The balljoint is pressed into the end of the LCA.

Here is the setup in the car, viewed from the front

The steering rack is behind the LCA and not visible. The balljoint is inside the dark black rubber boot just above the outside end of the LCA. Just above the balljoint is the steering knuckle and you can see one of the two bolts holding to the strut. On my Corolla there is a shiny aluminum part above the knuckle and below the strut as a roll center adjuster (RCA, or bump steer spacer for you Datsun guys) which is exactly the same spot you would setup your AE86 strut->Starlet knuckle adapter....and use longer bolts, of course.

When I had mine, nothing was available, it was all DIY. TechnoToyTuning now sells an adapter for the latter approach:

http://technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=775

This guy also has a nice writeup on his Starlet suspension upgrades:

http://www.esgarage.com/02kp61/sus/sus.htm#.htm

The AE86 strut->KP61 steering knuckle is probably easier to make at home because it could be done with basic machining on some bar stock, or possibly even with hacksaw/file/drillpress-type fabrication if you work slowly and are confident with your measuring/marking capabilities. YMMV...try at your own risk.

I was wondering if it would be possible to take the entire Corolla setup and modify it to fit in a Starlet, but I didn't get far enough along in measuring and mocking up to get an answer. I thought it would be awesome to use Corolla struts (with all the aftermarket struts/springs) and Corolla brakes (bigger and vented) as well as the Corolla rack and pinion. The biggest issue is that the Starlet is narrower. I contemplated a custom crossmember or modified Corolla crossmember with Corolla steering rack, lower control arms, knuckles, struts, and brakes. I figured I might be able to narrow the crossmember by cutting off the top (including motor mounts) narrowing what remained down the middle, then trim the hole in the top to fit the piece I trimmed out of the top, weld it all back together, and then modify the hole spacing as needed to bolt to the Starlet unibody. I was hoping that approach would result in 4AG-spaced motor mounts up top, with Corolla LCA mounts on the bottom, but narrowed to Starlet engine bay width, and with Starlet spaced crossmember->unibody bolt holes. The LCA aren't quite the same length, so I would probably have either gone coilover+camber adjustment on the struts or else also modified the LCAs with more cutting and welding.

The two huge issues I didn't even begin to wrap my head around or get any real numbers/geometry for were steering rack with, tie rod length, and resulting bump steer potential, and less important, any possible fit issues with the steering rack and Starlet unibody.

sobe_death wrote: Found this one locally. Not quite challenge priced, but nearly. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/1575462990.html

I really, really wish you'd stop doing that.

Resurrecting a zombie thread for nefarious (planning) purposes. Thanks for the info, 86 and61! I missed all this sweet info the first time around.

I know where two are sitting in decent condition. Don't know if they are for sale or not.

SWMBO wants a starlet in the worst way.

I see the same one in town 4 or 5 times a year, perfect and 100% original. driven by an elderly man with a handicap plate. I would bet good money his is the original owner. Has not responded to either of notes I have left him.

I have a really rusty one that is getting some fanciness eventually.

3 on SoCal craigslist, about 3 gs apart.
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4858026202.html

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/4906407067.html

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4858312218.html

I owned on for a while. It was for sale on Ebay and I trailered it back to Pittsburgh from Atlanta. Great little car but very low on power. Everywhere you went you were driving it at 8 or 9/10ths just to keep up with traffic. I had big plans for it but it had to go to pay bills when I got divorced. Some guy from Manitoba flew into town and drove it back and I've never seen it again.

jimbob_racing wrote: I owned on for a while. It was for sale on Ebay and I trailered it back to Pittsburgh from Atlanta. Great little car but very low on power. Everywhere you went you were driving it at 8 or 9/10ths just to keep up with traffic. I had big plans for it but it had to go to pay bills when I got divorced. Some guy from Manitoba flew into town and drove it back and I've never seen it again.

I miss that car!

Here's mine;

'83 EFI, AC 4 speed. It is one of the local Dominoes Fleet that I mentioned coveting all that time ago. This one was the boss's car, and was only used occasionally for pizza delivery. It has been repainted over the classic Dominoes paint scheme (orange/red back, blue stripe, white front). I scored it a couple of years ago for $450. The guy I bought it from was (is) a Pizza Dude, and got it from his father-in-law(Dominoes owner. Owner of the 4 coveted cars at the local Dominoes), or something like that. I believe I am the third owner.I had the wheels from a past project, and kept wanting a car to put them on. It would run for a bit, then quit. Start right back up if you let it sit, but even after dropping the fuel tank, replacing the fuel filter, and generally fiddling, the problem persisted. About this time, I realized it had been wrecked. The driver's inner fender/support is poorly welded in, and Black, wheras the rest of the car is white. I figure it was replaced back when the factory still offered these parts. Anyway, I decided to yank the engine and transmission, and strip it down for a refresh. This car is the whole reason for my Cummins Dodge build

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/how-to-build-a-build-thread-cummins-content/97185/page1/

The plan is to tow it to an alignment shop, check to see how bad this crappy repair was done, possibly to a frame shop, eventually, to a sandblasting guy, then bring it home for seam welding and rust repair (its not too bad, especially looking at Singleslammer's car).

Originally, my plan was to put my old Suzuki Swift GTi engine in it with a Sidekick transmission, but the more I think about it, the more I think that drivetrain should go in my Bugeye, and this should get the 4AGE, and remain all Toyota. Thoughts?

Build thread to come.

Looking back over this, my Dodge link does not work. I tried. Learning is fun.

FWIW, there's several very informative entries (Project KP 61) on the blog at JDM Legends. It's a daily driver of one of the owners, and Eric has done a clean job of engineering it & combining the KP61 & AE86/4AG stuff. Had no idea so much was involved. It's definitely not just a simple engine swap, but the end result looks like it's well worth the effort.

I was building a ford 2.3 turbo ford powered starlet for the challenge once. Scrapped it in favor of a caged RX2 which I bailed on for another Z car build.

One of my favorite KP60's - EvaR!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPa6u6g6Og8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYDmYg1AUZE

My brother and I have always wanted a KP60...maybe one day...

In reply to Vracer111:

Allow me to be the first to say:

Schwing!

That is a completely crazy build.

If anyone can find that build thread from forever-ago where the guy swapped a 4g63 into a KP61. Please send me the link. I cannot find it.