Toyota Suspends Sales!| Grassroots Motorsports forum |

carguy123 SuperDork
1/26/10 8:51 p.m.

Now this is BIG!

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2635597/toyota_suspends_sales_amid_recall_problems.html?cat=62

They are not just recalling certain models, they are suspending all sales!

OOPs just found this thread in Off Topic. But if there ever was on On Topic this would qualify.

This is the ultimate DBW fear. It's the first thing I thought of when I first heard of DBW.

ignorant SuperDork
1/26/10 8:53 p.m.

They atleast confront their problems head on...

but it does seem like they are taking a page from Skeletor's play book.

jrw1621 Dork
1/26/10 9:56 p.m.

Wow!

• 2009-2010 RAV4,
• 2009-2010 Corolla,
• 2009-2010 Matrix,
• 2005-2010 Avalon,
• 2007-2010 Camry,
• 2010 Highlander,
• 2007-2010 Tundra,
• 2008-2010 Sequoia

actualsize New Reader
1/26/10 9:58 p.m.

May I interest you in a Yaris?

carguy123 SuperDork
1/26/10 9:59 p.m.

Kinda scary isn't it?

My sis in law just had a wreck that totalled her new Highlander. She said the car just took off.

EricM Dork
1/26/10 10:29 p.m.

goes to check his throttle cable yup still there, no slack, spring with plenty of tension.

whew

Appleseed Dork
1/27/10 12:49 a.m.

Wait, did GM change it's name to Toyota?

ignorant SuperDork
1/27/10 4:37 a.m.

Appleseed wrote: Wait, did GM change it's name to Toyota?

naaa gm wouldn't take these steps.. They'd just deny everything..

I think the company grew too fast and got away from their core principles. I'll bet somewhere in toyota purchasing someone got a big pat on the back for saving money on some electronics and now that guy is sucking wind hard.

I used to work in the auto industry and part of my job was giving the supplier quality engineers the evidence they needed to beat up suppliers. I can't recall how many times I've heard a supplier tell me that I could have better quality product if I paid for it like toyota. They then would relay a story about how toyota would pay extra dollars for absolutely no defects cosemetic or otherwise. While we.. Got what we paid for...

I wonder If i can buy my 86 yota pickup back..

also did you notice they only suspended production at their american plants? Luckily my Rav4 was made in Japan...

ZOO Dork
1/27/10 6:50 a.m.

I wish there would be some user instruction to go along with the mass hysteria. Specifically, I haven't heard or read a report that tells owners that they can override the car "taking off" by fully applying the brakes. Having said that, I understand that few people every use all of the available braking power, even when trying to avoid an accident.

Is there anything mechanical going on that would prevent full brake applicaiton in these cases?

alfadriver Dork
1/27/10 6:54 a.m.

ignorant wrote:
Appleseed wrote: Wait, did GM change it's name to Toyota?
naaa gm wouldn't take these steps.. They'd just deny everything.. I think the company grew too fast and got away from their core principles. I'll bet somewhere in toyota purchasing someone got a big pat on the back for saving money on some electronics and now that guy is sucking wind hard. I used to work in the auto industry and part of my job was giving the supplier quality engineers the evidence they needed to beat up suppliers. I can't recall how many times I've heard a supplier tell me that I could have better quality product if I paid for it like toyota. They then would relay a story about how toyota would pay extra dollars for absolutely no defects cosemetic or otherwise. While we.. Got what we paid for... I wonder If i can buy my 86 yota pickup back.. also did you notice they only suspended production at their american plants? Luckily my Rav4 was made in Japan...

Like I posted before, if you are going to be so lame to condemn American car makers, then be so brave to post where your work, so that we can all avoid buying your stuff for really poor reasons.

this kind of lame attack sickens me. You think you "know" toyota, yet, it's pretty clear that your pre-concieved notion is not quite right either. These cars were engineered in Japan, as were the Lexus cars that are having problems. Just because the parts may have been sourced in the US does not make them inherently poor. Again, if you REALLY believe that, have the guts to tell us where you work, so we can stop buying it for no good reason.

Eric Proud engineer of an American Car Company.

DeadSkunk Reader
1/27/10 8:29 a.m.

I worked in the auto industry ,and once upon a time, Toyota did pay for better quality. However ,these days that isn't so. They're buying their components from all the same suppliers as everybody else. The only exceptions are the suppliers that they have had relocate from Japan to North America. Generally speaking, those suppliers don't supply the domestic automakers much. In the plants I was working with, we made Toyota parts in the very same fashion as the domestics. The only thing I will give Toyata, is that they were easier to deal with to get an engineering change done, if we could show it was a better product or lower cost. They would never allow changes just before model launches, though, and the domestics do a lot of that. It's also difficult to tell how much of the changes are generated by the OEM and how much by the suppliers themselves. Myself, I'm convinced that part quality is pretty good throughout the industry. I'd put a Fusion up against a Camry. My choice would be driven by features and price. So, this week I'd like a car with a real throttle cable, please. Better go check what's on the cars we currently own.

Slyp_Dawg New Reader
1/27/10 8:36 a.m.

yet another reason for me not to buy a Toyota. numb handling that might just have the potential to put you to sleep, and now throttle issues on half their range? no thank you, I'll stick with my older, simpler cars please

93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/27/10 8:50 a.m.

alfadriver wrote:
ignorant wrote:
Appleseed wrote: Wait, did GM change it's name to Toyota?
naaa gm wouldn't take these steps.. They'd just deny everything.. I think the company grew too fast and got away from their core principles. I'll bet somewhere in toyota purchasing someone got a big pat on the back for saving money on some electronics and now that guy is sucking wind hard. I used to work in the auto industry and part of my job was giving the supplier quality engineers the evidence they needed to beat up suppliers. I can't recall how many times I've heard a supplier tell me that I could have better quality product if I paid for it like toyota. They then would relay a story about how toyota would pay extra dollars for absolutely no defects cosemetic or otherwise. While we.. Got what we paid for... I wonder If i can buy my 86 yota pickup back.. also did you notice they only suspended production at their american plants? Luckily my Rav4 was made in Japan...
Like I posted before, if you are going to be so lame to condemn American car makers, then be so brave to post where your work, so that we can all avoid buying your stuff for really poor reasons. this kind of lame attack sickens me. You think you "know" toyota, yet, it's pretty clear that your pre-concieved notion is not quite right either. These cars were engineered in Japan, as were the Lexus cars that are having problems. Just because the parts may have been sourced in the US does not make them inherently poor. Again, if you REALLY believe that, have the guts to tell us where you work, so we can stop buying it for no good reason. Eric Proud engineer of an American Car Company.

Please read Datsun15000's post.

The parts that ARE failing were made in America (CTS). The parts that are NOT, were made by Denso.

You're right. It doesn't make the USA parts inherently poor. But it's the case here.

93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/27/10 8:54 a.m.

Slyp_Dawg wrote: yet another reason for me not to buy 99.9% of the cars available on the new market. numb handling that might just have the potential to put you to sleep, no thank you, I'll stick with my older, simpler cars please

If we keep it simple, you and i can be stuck with 90s and earlier cars. Just the way i like it!

4cylndrfury Dork
1/27/10 9:24 a.m.

Slyp_Dawg wrote: I'll stick with my older, simpler cars please

YES x a bazillion

Throttle cable? Check
Real steering shaft and power assist? Check
Tape deck in the dash? Check

Stupid nanny/cost savers? Zilch

reasonably simple end of the 20th century cars? priceless

Brought to you by the era that brought you video games, pearl jam, and ...well me!

fastmiata Reader
1/27/10 9:56 a.m.

I had an '86 Honda do a similar thing. Evidently there was some electronic control for pollution control that would hold the throttle WFO. I drove it to the dealer using the key to turn it off at intersections and otherwise just tried to keep a load on it so that it wouldnt race off. Honda fixed it and never told me what was really wrong.
Unfortunately for Toyota you cant expect your average owner to be that alert or savvy. I dont know how much of a hit Toyota will take from this news but at least they are being proactive. You can say all you want but none of the old style American manuf would have taken such a bold move. My mom has two cars that are on that list. All I can tell her to do is be prepared to slap it into neutral and kill it with the key. BTW she is a snow bird who lives near Melbourne Fla so the GRM staff may want to keep their eyes open.

alfadriver Dork
1/27/10 11:34 a.m.

93celicaGT2 wrote: Please read Datsun15000's post. The parts that ARE failing were made in America (CTS). The parts that are NOT, were made by Denso. You're right. It doesn't make the USA parts inherently poor. But it's the case here.

A few things- first, if it's really CTS that has the issue, it's their fault, not the rest of the US manufacturing base- if read Ignorants post in the other thread, he basically blames the US engineers, and I take big issue with that.

Second- if you really think that Lexus's problems are the floor mat, then you need to understand that Toyota probably uses the same spec for ALL of their cars. So it's highly likely that this problem is identical to Lexus as it is Toyota.

Third, since we are in the US, and these plants feed primarily the US- no other country is there regulations that tightly control unintended acceleration. So while a small number of failures here is a big deal, it's not in the rest of the world

It seems as if people keep trying to find excuses for Toyota, in the end, if CTS is making the part exactly to print, then the fault is purely with Toyota. Knowing how Toyota controls their suppliers, I would harbor a guess that CTS makes the part TO PRINT. Hopefully, they can get through this without any other people getting hurt- that's a horrible ending to a problem.

Eric

Vigo Reader
1/27/10 11:37 a.m.

Man ive had sticky throttle problems on my minivan ever since i got it, because i was too lazy to change the throttle body (crunchy shaft bushings) for one of the other ones i had lying around

But if it were 500,000 of my tbi minivan on the street there wouldnt be many fatal accidents because it only had as much power as it needed for a family vehicle.

But family cars these days come with way too much power for the average person who will go into freakout mode and kill themselves when their Avalon hits WOT because they've never driven a 14 second car before. After all, if its good enough for the Lotus Evora, its good enough to kill grandma.

Dont get me wrong, id buy the 3.5v6 in any toyota if i could afford it. But im also of the opinion that drivers should have SOME familiarity with a vehicles limits before they go driving it around all day every day. I think there are some countries that agree with me, too

For the record: that throttle body is gone from my van.. its got turbo motor now. and its STILL slower than most 3.5L toyotas that are being driven around with .5L of driving skill.

alfadriver Dork
1/27/10 11:42 a.m.

ignorant wrote: They atleast confront their problems head on...

Give them credit for trying to solve a problem they should not have had in the first place? I don't think so.

I wonder what your response would be had it been GM in the headlines doing the exact same thing... let me guess- "typical GM, bad US quality".

But instead, you figure out how to turn a Toyota problem into a US problem. Good on ya.

4cylndrfury Dork
1/27/10 11:52 a.m.

vigo and eric are my heros...Im even a closet yoda fanboi, and I still smell the reek of negligence all over them.

"proactivity" (albeit unnecessary activity - fixing a problem that never should have occurred) was their only course of action. If they sat back any longer, and any more people fried because of this, Toyota wouldve been slaughtered by the public and their closing pocketbooks.

I am glad they took action to solve the issue, but I have a hard time heralding it as anything other than a survival strategy.

93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/27/10 11:55 a.m.

alfadriver wrote: It seems as if people keep trying to find excuses for Toyota, in the end, if CTS is making the part exactly to print, then the fault is purely with Toyota. Knowing how Toyota controls their suppliers, I would harbor a guess that CTS makes the part TO PRINT. Hopefully, they can get through this without any other people getting hurt- that's a horrible ending to a problem. Eric

Wouldn't Denso be making the same parts to print?

I'm not defending Toyota, i don't care whatsoever about their current line up, or if they continue to sell.

But why would Toyota give a different print to Denso than they did to CTS? There's no logical reason for that. Someone screwed up, and if Denso is making the parts that aren't faulty, then that kindof points to CTS.

ClemSparks SuperDork
1/27/10 12:12 p.m.

To answer your question 93celicaGT2, different areas have different materials, regulations, standards, etc.

I work in a plant that is Japanese owned and makes parts for sale to Japanese plants in the US. We have different steel, resins, federal/environmental regulations, etc. So the prints can vary (they don't always...but they certainly can) on a Civic for the US market versus one for the Japanese market. Or Camry, or Altima, etc.

There are also often ambiguous callouts like "Or Equivalent" for vaious materials. That's a whole can of worms in itself. When a Tier 3 or 4 supplier is deciding what's "equivalent"...things can go downhill in a hurry. And no matter how hard you try, controlling suppliers that are twice and three times removed is like the proverbial hearding of cats.

Clem