Track Dilemma

So this question seems to be above the forum that I lurk on for my car. So naturally I go to the best place for good answers, GRM! Vehicle in question is 2008 Civic Si Sedan (2945 lb, weight distribution 60F/40R)

So I need some advice from the track guys.

Life Story:

My main limitations are cash, class and reliability.

I have autocrossed all season, and have done fairly well on a local level. Car is entirely stock, from fluids to oem all season michelins. Ultimately my goal is to track the car next year at every event I can. I also would not mind to continue to autocross, after all I want all the seat time I can get. I strongly believe in buying quality parts once, and not cheaping out where it counts. While it would be nice to have coilovers, spoon headers and such, in truth it makes you no faster, and I want to develop the driver. I was thinking of all these nice parts, and while I could buy some I would fall into the trap that many people do and have no $ for seat time and consumables. Which is all I need. The car even in stock form, is a great great driving companion. So here are my questions, and keep in mind my budget is limited.

1) Brakes: I have the rbf600 and T1R lines sitting, will be putting on after winter. I know the cars brakes are the weakest link, and the heat capacity is not nearly high enough. I need the car to survive 20 minute sessions at my local track with preferably no cool down in between. Now ideally I would have some street/autox pads and some dedicated track pads and rotors. This can easily rack up a 1000$ CAD bill in short order. So my base plan is HP+ all around. Ideally I would also have dedicated set of blues and powerslot rotors, but I would rather avoid the extra incurred costs initially until I get more seat time in this car. I have experience only with carbotech race pads from my turbo miata which I tracked. Entirely different animal.

-how bad is the increased rotor wear? -do they require that much more heat? I do not want my GS autox braking performance to be compromised...And with our courses usually being less than a minute Im afraid braking performance will be worse than stock...

2)Tires: Again, I had big dreams with 17x8/9 RPF1 and dedicated slicks. Well E36 M3 happens. So Im thinking take my stock tires and shred them in a track day. This worries me as I can feel them getting greasy at the end of a longer autox course. Ive ran azenis rt-615 and the AO48s on my miata. Once those are toast, Im thinking of throwing the Exsta XS on the stock wheels and using those between autox/track/daily. The azenis were great for autox but would overheat on a roadcourse. The new XS's are amazing! They feel like r-compies from just 2 years ago, the grip is absurd. Im already nipping at the heels of the top minis (on the all seasons), the GTIs are not even worth my time and heres hoping someone will bring out the new genesis for some competition. -any better suggestions? Obviously Id love to have v710s for GS and some wider, lighter wheels with race tires for the track, but not an option right now.

3)Details: I need a decent data aquisition on a budget. I was looking at maxq data, but have gotten mixed reviews from the top guns in the club. There is also this nifty little tool ( Scan Tool - Performance Meter, Data Logger, Scanner | DashDyno SPD ) but this seems to be a glorified Gtech. -again, in the name of budget without too much compromise, I have stock seats and belt with the lovely little CG-Lock -rear sway bar and camber bolts would be nice, but they knock me out of GS, and STX competition is way too stiff here.

Thx for reading, all suggestions, insight and advice is welcome.

I have run the HP+ pads and have shown no noticeable rotor wear and they don't require a lot of heat. At least that is my experience on my ZX2/SR. I undestand that some of these new tires are great for an auto cross but suck on the race track when they get hot. I've always run Hoosiers so I never had any problems. Since most track days don't run classes, get a bigger rear sway bar for the track. You won't believe the difference.

A couple of things:

Tracking a car is hard on it. Even a new car. I did a grand total of 1 HPDE in my new at the time Mazdaspeed6. I had a guy spin out infront of me at the HPDE.

I did not wreck and there was pleanty of distance between me and him but it did get my attention.

I descided then and there never to track a car I cant afford to walk away from. Many insurance policies will not cover you if you wreck on track.

1) I cant really speak to your brake issue

2) I have a friend who does a lot of HDPE's he loves his Exsta XS. I love the ones I have on the car I am autocrossing.

3) Data aquisition, I feel your pain. Its remarkable how expensive these devices are, especially if you compare it to a cell phone or a GPS naviagation device. If your on a real budget and have an Iphone check out the logbox application. However you will need to figure out how to process and display the data it records. If you do end up with a max Q system check out www.racingchart.com

Its a pretty neat way to bench race...

I've never used the HP+ .... have always used Carbotech or BHP .... that said I've never noticed any problem on the street.... other than the amount of brake dust (but the HP+ would have the same prob )....

one of my instructors was amazed at how the Integra handled with the coil overs and the rear sway bar... so it's something to consider

I've been running track days on a set of Azenis 615's now for 4 track events and except for the wear on the outer edges brought on by the banking at Rockingham, I've not experienced any any problems ... no greasyness even at 100°f for 4 30 min sessions .... though I plan on getting some RA 1's soon

I would NOT use HP+ on the track. They have great initial bite, but their grip falls away quickly at higher temps.

They are a great auto-x pad, but they are not meant for the track.

What if you just bought a set of HT10 for the front only (where most of the braking force is needed). Would that really break the bank? There aren't many street pads that can cope with really high temps.

The reality of wadding up the car is apparent. Its a risk Im willing to take (but cannot afford). Im very good for these things though, I dont red mist or drive beyond my limits (but Im sure its bound to happen).

Again, Id love a swaybar and camber (even for better use of tires, hell I have a pyrometer that I keep track with) but that would push me out of GS.

The XS's are great. I had a friend ask me to drive his sentra ser with the xs's. Such a great tire. We actually had a Kumho Canada engineer fly up from the states for a big event we had. He said that in actual testing the treadwear on the XS was closer to 300, but no one would take the tire seriously then. Hence the "180" rating. I loved the 615's, but the XS are superior without a doubt. They are just not the most forgiving tire for novices.

The Hawk HT10, those are 1 more step aggressive than the Hawk Blues no? See that was part of the original plan, but I would need dedicated front rotors as well then (which are actually cheaper than the pads themselves!). I have serious doubt that the Hp+ will hold up, particularly in such a heavy car with no ducting. We will see, most likely I will have to get a set of blues and rotors for the front when it comes to track duty.

I don't think they are necessarily more aggressive than the Blues, just more a more modern compound and less dust.

While I love the Blues, and they would probably work fine for you, they do make a lot of nasty dust. I would go with the HT-10s which aren't as bad and I think hold up better in high heat situations.

The reality of wadding up the car is apparent. Its a risk Im willing to take (but cannot afford). Im very good for these things though, I dont red mist or drive beyond my limits (but Im sure its bound to happen).

Danger, danger. If you can't afford to wad it up, don't do it. There are a lot of things that can happen on the track that even a conservative driver has no control over. Someone else losing control. Fluid spilled on the track in a turn (I've had that happen...in the rain...not fun). Lots of things. Get a cheap second car to track.

Keep auto-xing save the track day money for a dedicated track car preferably one you dont like, then you care even less if/when you smash it

I love my XS's. And I recently did a track day at Road Atlanta. They were perfect. And I drove home on them afterwards.

ddavidv wrote: While I love the Blues, and they would probably work fine for you, they do make a lot of nasty dust. I would go with the HT-10s which aren't as bad and I think hold up better in high heat situations.

The reality of wadding up the car is apparent. Its a risk Im willing to take (but cannot afford). Im very good for these things though, I dont red mist or drive beyond my limits (but Im sure its bound to happen).

Danger, danger. If you can't afford to wad it up, don't do it. There are a lot of things that can happen on the track that even a conservative driver has no control over. Someone else losing control. Fluid spilled on the track in a turn (I've had that happen...in the rain...not fun). Lots of things. Get a cheap second car to track.

Second that. If you can't afford to walk away from it, you have no business being on track with it.

I run the HP+, and would say it's primarily a track pad that works on the street. But that's in a Miata, and I'm quite a bit lighter than you.

You would really benefit from picking up a second set of wheels. Just find a good deal on decent wheels that meet your needs. Pretty much any wheels you buy on Craigslist can be re-sold there for the same price. Just buy a second set, and use the lighter of your two sets for track/auto-x. When you fry the stock tires on them, replace them with good rubber.

What people are saying about the value of a cheap second car really is great advice. Think about what it would cost to repaint body damage. Chances are you can get a Miata/E30/Civic for less. The lighter, cheaper, older car will not lose value and will very likely save you money on consumables.

A second car is not even an option. Mostly because I live with my parents. In fact, 2 weeks ago I bought an E30 318is for 160$. Running. I ended up giving it away to my friend who we totaled a car with offroading. Do you know how hard that was to do for a long time GRM-er... That car would have been perfect track warrior. Hell it came with a second set of ricer wheels, I could have made money on the damn thing...

Ouch!

Well, otherwise sounds like you're on the right track. You definitely will want an extra set of wheels.

Then, I think the biggest question in building the car is it's primary duty. You're going to have to sacrifice functionality in some areas to make the car excel in others. It's sounding like remaining competitive in auto-x is higher priority than open-track performance/manners. Just build it to compete at the auto-x level you want, and figure out brakes and tires that will function on track.