U-Joints. I am starting to hate them.

I'm trying to decide if I hate U-Joints or CV Joints more.

In a million miles of RWD Toyotas, I've had 1 U-joint go bad.  I guess I can't really complain.  The ZAV (1998 LX470) started to get a vibration at only 230K miles.  First it only hit at 60 MPH and went away.  I thought it was my snows.  Then it hit at 30 MPH and stayed there.  I limped home from work and into the shop it went.  Crawling under it, everything looked pretty good.  Then I grabbed the distal end of the drive shaft and wiggled.  Huh.  Not supposed to have like 2-3mm play in the U-Joint.  Not supposed to have any play in the U-Joint.  I guess that explained that clunk I'd been having on taking off too. 

Off it came.  I last messed with U-Joints quite some time ago.  I think early 80's I did a 72 F100 LWB that had a clunk.  New U joints didn't change the clunk, but at least I knew they were good.

A trip to VatoZone for a pair of MOOG super-heavy-duty U joints got me one and, what, that one looks like someone has been in it.  Let's take a closer look.  Yup, no C clip thingies.  "Here's another."  No C clip thingies.  I'll just take the one, thanks.  Trip to another VatoZone next town over for another new one.  I don't buy RMA'd crap.  $21 ea.  A new rebuilt drive shaft on Rock Auto is about 4 bills.

These are at least the "replaceable" ones.  My RN Truck with only 385K miles on the original U-Joints has non-replaceables, which you have to get special ones to replace.  These MOOG 285's are plenty stout and have a grease fitting.  My Google-Fu shows that some prefer the non-greasable ones becase they think they are stronger.  Who knew you had to grease these things?  Like I said, I've got a million miles on Toyota U-Joints and they usually don't even have a grease fitting. 

Google-Fu had some modern DIY's on these things.  Some You-Toobes, some Pirate 4x4, etc.  It always looks easier on teh toobes.  Those things did not really want to come out.  You catch the one end in a bigger socket and push the other end with a littler socket.  Hit them with some PB Blaster first.  One half of them, I forget which it is called, not the part on the shaft, the part that bolts to something, doesn't have a square part to press against.  That makes putting it in the 20 ton press a bit challenging.  I hate it when things shoot across the shop under extreme force.  Anyway, I've got it down to only 1 hour of work to remove one U-Joint.  Putting the new one in is not a big deal, they go pretty easy with just a hammer.  Taking them out required the press and the BFH.  I have a HF Drilling hammer as my new favorite BFH.  My arm still hurts.  One end is rebuilt and the other end is apart, ready to go back together.  I think I have maybe an hour or so left on the job. 

Inspection of the bad one was interesting.  There was a little rust on it.  When I got the caps out and looked at the needle bearings, they weren't so much needle bearings as what looked more like a bearing shell.  That is, the needles were pounded flat and kinda fused together on one side, probably the drive side.  Not too much grease in it either.  I seem to recall greasing the thing last year.  I know I greased one and couldn't get to the other so I let it go.  I doubt that the 5K miles I put on it in that time period was the cause.  The front one didn't look too bad.  There were some marks on the bearing surfaces, but not that bad.  I could probably go another 100K on that one if I had to.

So, What We Learned:  Grease them U-Joints if there is a grease fitting.  I hate U-Joints.  My arm still hurts from swinging the Drilling Hammer.  Hopefully it will stop hurting in a month or two.  I think I damaged my "catcher" socket in the press.  20 tons is a lot of force.  That old guy in the next town over that rebuilds drive shafts can have my next U-Joint business.

One time, I had my U-joints installed, because the parts store had a machine shop in the back, and they offered. The dude used a big vise instead of a press. I couldn't believe my eyes. He had both done in less than 10 minutes, and he didn't have to take them back apart because one of the needle bearings got turned. 

When I had the chance to acquire a very large vise, I got one. I've been known to use C-clamps, too. 

I’ve done more Spitfire u joints that I care to remember.  All done with a vise and sockets.  

Yep the guy I take my Sammy to uses a big vise for U-joint work, and he has a big press.

I pretty much don't like them either. It's a good thing they are cheap because about 25% of the time I end up berkeleying up the new one installing them. I've done the press thing, the vice thing, the hammer thing, pretty much all the things. I have the best luck with a large ballpeen hammer and the vice. 

These on the ZAV are too big for my big vice.  That is, no sockets on the end would fit.  I did grab the yoke thingies to hold them while I beat on the stuck end caps to get them out after they were pushed out most of the way.  I watched the old guy at the drive shaft shop do one once.  No presses, just a BFH that looked like it came out of the 30's or 40's. My ball peen hammer seems to be best for putting the new caps back in and for "adjustments" during the take-apart process.

You've identified the problem. You need a bigger vise. 

Yeah, bigger vice.  I have the biggest one Sam's sold at the time, the same as the biggest HF vice.

Well, it's back together and the vibration is gone.  Success.  I also learned that I hate grease guns.  2 HF pneumatics were crap this morning.  Leaking out the housings, not squirting grease.  They went in the trash.  My 40 year old "mini" hand operated one still worked.  I need a new grease gun.  HF again?  Dunno.

Dr. Hess said:

Yeah, bigger vice.  I have the biggest one Sam's sold at the time, the same as the biggest HF vice.

 

Well, it's back together and the vibration is gone.  Success.  I also learned that I hate grease guns.  2 HF pneumatics were crap this morning.  Leaking out the housings, not squirting grease.  They went in the trash.  My 40 year old "mini" hand operated one still worked.  I need a new grease gun.  HF again?  Dunno.

You answered your own question.  HF stuff is OK for some things like hammers but if precision is needed I'll go quality every  time. I want a tool to do what it's supposed to do when I want it to. Not doing that is not an option!

spitfirebill said:

I’ve done more Spitfire u joints that I care to remember.  All done with a vise and sockets.  

+1.

Converting to CV joints... 

Lincoln grease gun

I bought the one at the link a while back.  I love it.

go-along u joint press thingy

I bought the bolt press at the link above a while back, because I'm convinced I will need to change the UJ on my track car in the paddock some day.  My drive shaft situation is flaky.  I have 3.5 degrees of shaft downangle (good) but my pinion faces are 0.8 degrees off parallel (bad).

The press works easily.  Am I the only one who sometimes winds up with a tight pivot in the joint after assembly, that works itself out and becomes nice and easy after I reinstall the shaft and run it for a bit?

I'm thinkin' about that Lincoln grease gun.  A grease gun is not what I normally call a "precision" instrument.  Closer to a "hammer", but the HF one I have wouldn't make a good hammer either.  Given that Toyotas generally don't have any grease zerks, I just haven't had much of a need for one, and the ones I have just lay around and ooze goo out into my tool box, then onto the shop floor.  Well, 2 of them are now oozing goo into my trash can.  I like the pneumatic ones because "air tool," but if it isn't going to work on me and a hand crank one will, so much for that.

I do the Jeep u-joints with a ball joint press.  Works pretty darn well for it and no destroyed sockets. 

Bench vise or shop press.

Bought a Columbian bench vise after busting an antique vise pressing u-joints. It was $275 25 years ago, last vise I'll ever need, money well spent. Columbian had handled all u-joints except one stubborn crusty rusty F-150 driveshaft.

Set up the F-150 u-joint in shop press w/ sockets or pipe. Shoot w/ p-oil, preload the joint, OA torch heat, creak n groan. Repeat w/ more p-oil, preload and heat. Finally gave it up after several applications but not w/o a fight. That was one rusty truck. Cleaned and reassembled in bench vise. And that is why I have a shop press. 

Got my grease guns from TSC, prolly all over 10 y/o now but they usually carry good stuff. One ea. for chassis grease, CV grease and silicone grease. One small gun for lithium grease. 

Old timer welder from work had good advice when I was looking for a bench vise. Kid, don't jerk yurself off w/ cheap E36 M3, buy a good one once and be done w/ it. 

I don't think you can ever have a vice that is too big.  The one I have has been doing OK for the last 30 years.  It is starting to get to EOL, though.  Backlash is going up.  I have the 20 ton press for squeezing stuff that really needs squeezing. 

I ordered that Lincoln grease gun from amazon.  I'll get some private label red synthetic grease at Wally World for it.  I use that stuff for everything except wheel bearings, which get Harley Davidson wheel bearing grease.

NOTE: When using a press or vice its best to cut a bolt to length and screw a nut on.  Place it between the ears of the joints so the ears, unscrew nut to hold the bolt in place don't pinch together or bend / snap.

44Dwarf said:

NOTE: When using a press or vice its best to cut a bolt to length and screw a nut on.  Place it between the ears of the joints so the ears, unscrew nut to hold the bolt in place don't pinch together or bend / snap.

Such a device isn't needed if the task is done correctly.  

On my old 04 Ford F150 with non-serviceable joints, my transmission guy sent the work out to his driveshaft guy, who in turn built a really pretty custom driveshaft with serviceable joints.  Price out the door with labor was <$500 and the Ford replacement shaft was >$600 for the parts alone.  

Some jobs are worth farming out.  I have zero enthusiasm for working on my everyday cars.

There are certain skills that need repetition for a person to become proficient.  U joint replacement falls into that category.

I'm not as good as I used to be when I worked on rwd Volvos every day.

I have to add one tool I didn't see mentioned, a brass hammer. I use a ball joint press and if it sticks going in or out I use the hammer on the yoke to free it up.