used cars similar to focus RS ( $ < 20000)

So im posting this for a friend (extreme social anxiety)  

He is tired of working on his old car (a 65 beetle)   he is planning on selling it and using it for a down payment on a new(er) car.    He would like to stay within 15000 dollars (maybe stretch to 20)    

He LOVES the Focus RS.  But he can't afford one.   So he wanted me to post and ask are there any similar cars?  He likes sleepers and somehow he thinks the RS is kinda a sleeper.  Obviously I disagree but thats beside the point.  

He was thinking about a Mazda speed6 but he couldn't really come up with any alternatives.    I suggest a vw R32?  He doesn't like the Subi STI because its too flashy...(again th RS is kinda flashy but I digress again)

He would like a manual car if at all possible.    

Thanks  for any answers.   

I may be biased, but I also bought one on purpose after much researching.

Need to act fast though.  A V70R (same thing but wagon) recently went for $25k on BaT.  S60Rs are still generally under $10k.  The '06-07 series has a better all wheel drive system and a larger rear stabilizer bar, of course these are the ones that get a premium.  (That $25k wagon was an '07, with the most desirable color, the most desirable interior, and it was a 6 speed manual)

I think Mk6 Golf Rs are dipping below that now. Not too far off the RS in performance with a healthy enough aftermarket to get it there easily. 

Hmm volvo thats a good option. 

In reply to Knurled. :

A coworker paid $3500 for a 6mt S60R with I hink 140k miles and a couple minor annoying issues. He's been very happy with it. 5 cylinder turbo noises are very nice. When searching I think he said most of the ones he was seeing were in the 4500-6k range. Definitely a lot of car for the money.

I personally think the V70R wagon is cooler but apparently so does everyone else so those cost more. 

TrulySpooky said:

Hmm volvo thats a good option. 

There are downsides of course.  It's a heavier car than the RS by about 300lb, and while it does have active suspension damping and user-settable stability control (that yes, can be turned off entirely) it is not engineered to be as "sporty" as the RS.  It's a fast luxury sedan, not a hot hatch.

But still, 300hp and an all wheel drive system that feels like it bends the laws of physics, and active suspension that somehow makes the wheelbase seem a foot shorter when you go into hooligan mode, covers a lot of sins.

The youngest R32 is 11 years old since VW put the gods forsaken bean counters in charge of the production line. The R32 is dead, long live the every option R line.

What did he like about the RS, and what do you like for him about the R32, besides "sleeper"? The AWD system in the R32 makes it too heavy for the stock powertrain, there's potential but then you're looking at VAG performance upgrades that are priced like they're going on an Audi-Benz GT30000 Panzer. What does your friend need this car to do? What does your friend value in a car? If he wants a manual, the Golf R is out as they have been DSG-only for years. VW, like everyone else, is quietly trying to make any manual preferring driver seem like the weird cousin that nobody likes and only barely tolerates but never invites anywhere.

MrFancypants said:

I think Mk6 Golf Rs are dipping below that now. Not too far off the RS in performance with a healthy enough aftermarket to get it there easily. 

How well have R32s been holding up?  That's a car that seemed to be pretty intriguing, even though I'm not terribly much a fan of how VR6s sound, which is just personal taste.

In reply to Error404 :

The Mk5 R32 was DSG only. The Mk6 Golf R was manual only. I think the Mk7 Golf R can be had with either. 

I've heard the Focus ST is solid car too if he can give up the RS's AWD.  Those are going to be closer to 20k than 15k though.

Knurled. said:

MrFancypants said:

I think Mk6 Golf Rs are dipping below that now. Not too far off the RS in performance with a healthy enough aftermarket to get it there easily. 

How well have R32s been holding up?  That's a car that seemed to be pretty intriguing, even though I'm not terribly much a fan of how VR6s sound, which is just personal taste.

I'm afraid my knowledge of the R32 is somewhat lacking, but as I understand it they seem to be as reliable as anything else. The Mk4s are up there in age at this point and I don't see a lot of clean ones for sale these days, but nice Mk5 are still out there. Do know that the MkV R32 is DSG only though, which may be a big negative. 

In reply to MrFancypants :

That depends on the buyer.  Personally, I'd want DSG in any VWAG product if given the option.  The newer ones even properly rev match your downshifts for you.

OTOH, I also insisted on an '06-07 S60R because they could be had with the 6 speed automatic, which is way stronger than the 5 speed OR the Getrag manual.  Also, I drive by ear, and it's hard to do that if you can't hear the engine because the car is so well insulated.

I posted a sub $1k T5, AWD, M/T S40 in the classifieds today. For around $10k he can have that making roughly 400awhp from a K16 upgrade and running a very proper JRZ coilover setup. 

captdownshift said:

I posted a sub $1k T5, AWD, M/T S40 in the classifieds today. For around $10k he can have that making roughly 400awhp from a K16 upgrade and running a very proper JRZ coilover setup. 

Dammit!  I was just looking for one of those.  What's wrong with it?

Knurled. said:

In reply to MrFancypants :

That depends on the buyer.  Personally, I'd want DSG in any VWAG product if given the option.  The newer ones even properly rev match your downshifts for you.

 

OTOH, I also insisted on an '06-07 S60R because they could be had with the 6 speed automatic, which is way stronger than the 5 speed OR the Getrag manual.  Also, I drive by ear, and it's hard to do that if you can't hear the engine because the car is so well insulated.

Oh yeah, I don't mind DSG, as far as automatics go it's excellent. But I personally do still prefer to row my own, and it sounds like the person asking for recommendations would prefer a manual if possible. 

In reply to Knurled. :

Needs a starter, battery and with that being the case, I wouldn't trust the alternator or belt. But at $850. I'd buy early and I'd buy often. 

captdownshift said:

In reply to Knurled. :

Needs a starter, battery and with that being the case, I wouldn't trust the alternator or belt. But at $850. I'd buy early and I'd buy often. 

Given that the last time I saw one for sale was much further away and $9000, it is tempting.

The other reason I bought the S60R is that, at the time, they were running about half of what all wheel drive S40s were.  When I did some searching (last week) S60Rs were $3000-10,000 and there were no all wheel drive S40s listed anywhere in the country.  (Why would I want another S60R?  Why have only one when you can have two for twice the price?)

Daylan C said:

I've heard the Focus ST is solid car too if he can give up the RS's AWD.  Those are going to be closer to 20k than 15k though.

This would be my thought too.  If he loves the RS that much, why not go for an ST?  They'd fall quite nicely into his budget.  Then throw in $400 for a Ford Racing engine tune and you've got a 260+ hp, nearly 375ft/lb tq monster of a hatch.  I owned one.  Insane fun to drive.  I'd suggest he test drive them though.  Some things that drove me crazy.  Turning radius of a school bus.  Tiny fuel tank.  Ford TouchMySelf system blows chunks.  Has the personality of a squirrel on caffeine, so if he wants something that is happy just cruising or sitting in traffic, this isn't it. 

I'd suggest Fiesta ST. Much of the RSs fun to drive factor, but at a little slower pace. It's more fun to drive than the Focus ST, and they should be in his price range. I had one for 98k trouble free miles. Had the Mountune MP215 kit installed  for 97k of them. 

I think he likes the RS because its all-wheel drive, and it does snow in Reno Nv, and I think he wants a turbo motor for tunability.    He also wants a backseat (mostly for storage)

I suggested an r32 for him because on paper it is somewhat similar to the RS.   Awd has a tunable motor.  It's a hatchback.   He's really looking for options.   He got to test drive one and absolutely loved it.  But he can't afford one.  I think the RS to a noncar person is a bit of a sleeper? And he likes being low key. 

TrulySpooky said:

I think he likes the RS because its all-wheel drive, and it does snow in Reno Nv, and I think he wants a turbo motor for tunability.    He also wants a backseat (mostly for storage)

 

I suggested an r32 for him because on paper it is somewhat similar to the RS.   Awd has a tunable motor.  It's a hatchback.   He's really looking for options.   He got to test drive one and absolutely loved it.  But he can't afford one.  I think the RS to a noncar person is a bit of a sleeper? And he likes being low key. 

You realize the Focus ST is a turbo motor, right?  It's also highly tunable.  Think of it as a FWD detuned RS.  The hatch size is decent, though my ST3 had a subwoofer that took up some space.  Get a set of rims and snow tires and the ST would do great in snow, it's FWD.

In reply to TrulySpooky :

I would suggest not the Volvo twins if he wants to play with tuning.  The turbo and injectors are almost maxed out from the factory, and the block needs to have the cylinder bores supported ("shimmed") if you want to go serious enough to upgrade the turbo and injectors, since they are very thin between the cylinders and will crack. Easy and cheap to DIY once you have the cylinder head off. Some of them cracked in stock form, but this generally happened before 100k.

I know he said no STI's because they're flashy, but does he know that they made them in more sedate hatchbacks from like 08-11? You skip the giant flashy rear wing, gain more functionality/cargo space, and end up with something very similar to the Focus RS.

 

vs 

Klayfish said:

TrulySpooky said:

I think he likes the RS because its all-wheel drive, and it does snow in Reno Nv, and I think he wants a turbo motor for tunability.    He also wants a backseat (mostly for storage)

 

I suggested an r32 for him because on paper it is somewhat similar to the RS.   Awd has a tunable motor.  It's a hatchback.   He's really looking for options.   He got to test drive one and absolutely loved it.  But he can't afford one.  I think the RS to a noncar person is a bit of a sleeper? And he likes being low key. 

You realize the Focus ST is a turbo motor, right?  It's also highly tunable.  Think of it as a FWD detuned RS.  The hatch size is decent, though my ST3 had a subwoofer that took up some space.  Get a set of rims and snow tires and the ST would do great in snow, it's FWD.

Agreed, I know plenty of people here in CNY who use their STs in the winter with a good set of winter tires. And I think we might get more snow than Reno. I mean, getting a couple feet in a weekend is not unheard of. I've seen STs pretty frequently in the 12-13k range, so with the 7-8k he saves, he can use that to mod it and close the gap on RS performance.

Also, RS, at least in my mind, is just as much, if not more, "Look at me, I'm a racecar" as an STi. The RS has as prominent a rear wing, RS badging literally everywhere and an exhaust that snap-crackle-pops.

+1 on the Fiesta ST, incredibly playful and fun, lots of mods available, decent practicality, and in the price range with room to spare. 

The Fusion Sport is the RS sleeper, AWD, turbo motor, decent chassis. They are not in the price range yet, but maybe pick up on older Lincoln? Could get you a lot of the sleeper vibe and AWD.

The Infinity G37 can also be had with AWD and a decent chassis.

Suzuki Kizashi was AWD and a great chassis. Down on power and limited aftermarket support, but a great sleeper.

The C30 is a great little hatch, and they have been converted to AWD, but I am guessing that would be out of the budget.