used turbo selection for ford 302?

so i keep dreaming about a 5.0 swap into my e36 and i was telling a coworker about how the easy exhaust solution is a pair of shorty headers swapped L-R to exit forward.... which logically is where the turbos go!

anyway, assuming a challenge-type build plan albeit without specific budget limitations, and assuming a stockish bottom end 5.0 H.O. probably with exploder heads and depending on recommendations a cam to make the turbos happy, what used/JY turbos are sized well for a ford 302? is it better to go single turbo with something like an HX45? other possibilities i'm unfamiliar with?

edit-also not looking to run high boost, say 5-8psi maybe 10psi max for conversational purposes

I think for as little (relatively) as a stock 5.0 will hold, a single big holset would be more than enough.

If you're going twins, i'd be looking at maybe twin HX35s, or even twin CT26s from MKiii Supras.

The popular setup ~5-7 years ago was twin T3's built up off of old Turbo Coupe TBirds. Get the .63 A/R housing ones (84-86 5-speed IIRC).

Javelin wrote: The popular setup ~5-7 years ago was twin T3's built up off of old Turbo Coupe TBirds. Get the .63 A/R housing ones (84-86 5-speed IIRC).

That would work, too.

Basically if you're going junkyard hopping, you just want a pair of the biggest ones you can find. You don't find too many Holsets in the junkyard, and the three biggest you'll find otherwise are Grand Nationals (riiiiiight), Turbo T-birds, and MKiii Supras.

what would be your trans plan for the swap?

I was planning to work with the stock vg30 in my challenge car for this year but it's looking like it may be in worse shape than I thought and need a rebuild. at that point, I may just want to do a v8 implant sooner rather than later.

In reply to bluej:

i'm open to whatever for the trans, t5 i'd be comfortable with non-turbo though i'm sure is pretty weak turbo but i dont generally shock load my drivetrains much either. maybe i could find a built AOD or a tremec 3550, whatever works with the challenge mindset really.

This topic interests me!

To be honest just abpout any OEM turbos in a pair would work, DSM, Volvo, subaru, Tbird, the list goes on, take your pick as long as they match identically, something with an internal wastegate would be highly recomended for sure as well, but in the end it depends on what kind of pressure ration/PSI you intend to run, and what your fuel system can handle.....

I was looking for a pair of GN turbo's for the 5.3l LS Jimmy. I persuaded a guy with a pair sitting and bought his pair of aftermarket 57mm turbo's locally.

This guy has a pair of GN turbo's for $450. Probably take less? http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/members-classifieds-turbo-related-parts/2-buick-grand-national-turbos-great-for-twins!-includes-adjustable-actuators/

Here is a pair asking $400.00. http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/members-classifieds-turbo-related-parts/2-grand-national-turbos-for-sale-$400/

For a trans a C4 with a mild shift kit might be a good, cost effective way to go, although it won't be a lot of fun on the highway. Maybe a reverse manual valve body?

Only issues with GN pairs would be spool in my mind, your doubleing the turbo and only adding 1.2L of displacement, it maybe make good top end but be esseintially stock or slightly lower power levels due to increased back pressure until you get those spun up. With a pair of say DSM's which were on a 2.0L motor @ 10 PSI though they regulalry went to 14-16psi w/o issues, which would mean on a 5.0 you should be able to get great spool and prolly an easy 10-12psi for a VERY good power band, but until you pull compressor maps, know your redlin, and your cfm @ rpm's your not gonna know for sure what your best options are.

Do your research is my best advice, you dont wanna pay for a pair of GN's only to find out a cheaper pair of volvo snails would have made the same peak power, better midrange, and been $100 cheaper...

bigbens6 wrote: Only issues with GN pairs would be spool in my mind, your doubleing the turbo and only adding 1.2L of displacement, it maybe make good top end but be esseintially stock or slightly lower power levels due to increased back pressure until you get those spun up. With a pair of say DSM's which were on a 2.0L motor @ 10 PSI though they regulalry went to 14-16psi w/o issues, which would mean on a 5.0 you should be able to get great spool and prolly an easy 10-12psi for a VERY good power band, but until you pull compressor maps, know your redlin, and your cfm @ rpm's your not gonna know for sure what your best options are. Do your research is my best advice, you dont wanna pay for a pair of GN's only to find out a cheaper pair of volvo snails would have made the same peak power, better midrange, and been $100 cheaper...

Personally, and tastes may vary, i find almost every stock turbo ever put on any stock car... too small for a true performance application. They're on there to mimic a bigger motor in most cases.

Stock turbo on MKiii Supras? It's one of the biggest stock single turbos ever put on a production vehicle. It's too small.

Saab turbos? Please.

I wouldn't want to pay for a pair of GN turbos either, they're likely expensive enough that you'd be better off finding a pair of aftermarket T3s.

Spool though, wouldn't be a problem i wouldn't think. I have a GN turbo setup for a Probe/MX6 2.2 sitting here that's going on mndsm's car. Little 2.2 litre, should spool by 3000rpms quite easily. I run a CT26 from a MKiii Supra on mine, and it'll hit over 20psi by 3000rpms on the same 2.2 motor.

I think a pair of 14bs from a DSM would not be a whole lot of fun on a 5.0. You'd be dropping off power like crazy in the top half of the RPM range.

Threads like this piss me off...

Now I'm back to looking for a turbo for my Miata.

MG Bryan wrote: Threads like this piss me off... Now I'm back to looking for a turbo for my Miata.

No no no buy my ITBs.

Or do both.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: Threads like this piss me off... Now I'm back to looking for a turbo for my Miata.

No no no buy my ITBs. Or do both.

mutters to himself about how he's wasting money on a girl's car...

Any idea how much boost I could run through them? I'm dumb enough to try.

MG Bryan wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: Threads like this piss me off... Now I'm back to looking for a turbo for my Miata.

No no no buy my ITBs. Or do both.

*mutters to himself about how he's wasting money on a girl's car...* Any idea how much boost I could run through them? I'm dumb enough to try.

Motor would be the limit, not the throttle body(ies).

Really all you'd need to do is make a plenum for the ITBs, then just do a normal turbo setup from there. See? It's easy!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

MG Bryan wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: Threads like this piss me off... Now I'm back to looking for a turbo for my Miata.

No no no buy my ITBs. Or do both.

*mutters to himself about how he's wasting money on a girl's car...* Any idea how much boost I could run through them? I'm dumb enough to try.

Motor would be the limit, not the throttle body(ies). Really all you'd need to do is make a plenum for the ITBs, then just do a normal turbo setup from there. See? It's easy!

Beware the imminent PM as I feel bad for derailing yet another thread.

MG Bryan wrote: Any idea how much boost I could run through them? I'm dumb enough to try.

There's only one way to find out...

EvanB wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: Any idea how much boost I could run through them? I'm dumb enough to try.

There's only one way to find out...

Exactly. Run it until it blows up, then turn it back a click.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

bigbens6 wrote: Only issues with GN pairs would be spool in my mind, your doubleing the turbo and only adding 1.2L of displacement, it maybe make good top end but be esseintially stock or slightly lower power levels due to increased back pressure until you get those spun up. With a pair of say DSM's which were on a 2.0L motor @ 10 PSI though they regulalry went to 14-16psi w/o issues, which would mean on a 5.0 you should be able to get great spool and prolly an easy 10-12psi for a VERY good power band, but until you pull compressor maps, know your redline, and your cfm @ rpm's your not gonna know for sure what your best options are. Do your research is my best advice, you dont wanna pay for a pair of GN's only to find out a cheaper pair of volvo snails would have made the same peak power, better midrange, and been $100 cheaper...

Personally, and tastes may vary, i find almost every stock turbo ever put on any stock car... too small for a true performance application. They're on there to mimic a bigger motor in most cases. Stock turbo on MKiii Supras? It's one of the biggest stock single turbos ever put on a production vehicle. It's too small. Saab turbos? Please. I wouldn't want to pay for a pair of GN turbos either, they're likely expensive enough that you'd be better off finding a pair of aftermarket T3s. Spool though, wouldn't be a problem i wouldn't think. I have a GN turbo setup for a Probe/MX6 2.2 sitting here that's going on mndsm's car. Little 2.2 litre, should spool by 3000rpms quite easily. I run a CT26 from a MKiii Supra on mine, and it'll hit over 20psi by 3000rpms on the same 2.2 motor. I think a pair of 14bs from a DSM would not be a whole lot of fun on a 5.0. You'd be dropping off power like crazy in the top half of the RPM range.

well im going off the OP who is looking for junk yard bargains, so i listed options, ofc buying new is optimal but a pair of EOM's would do the job just fine.... supra tinws can make 450 WHP, i have seen it done, so are they ideal, maybe not but can they perform, heck yes....

if you can suggest better oem/ junk yard options by all means go ahead...

But thanks for ignoring the meat of my post which i will add again: Until you pull compressor maps, know your redline, and your cfm @ rpm's your not gonna know for sure what your best options are.

Do your research is my best advice, you dont wanna pay for a pair of GN's only to find out a cheaper pair of volvo snails would have made the same peak power, better midrange, and been $100 cheaper...

Watch out, the 87-88 Turbo Coupes had tiny IHI turbochargers. Don't flow NEAR as much as the T3's did.

bigbens6 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

bigbens6 wrote: Only issues with GN pairs would be spool in my mind, your doubleing the turbo and only adding 1.2L of displacement, it maybe make good top end but be esseintially stock or slightly lower power levels due to increased back pressure until you get those spun up. With a pair of say DSM's which were on a 2.0L motor @ 10 PSI though they regulalry went to 14-16psi w/o issues, which would mean on a 5.0 you should be able to get great spool and prolly an easy 10-12psi for a VERY good power band, but until you pull compressor maps, know your redlin, and your cfm @ rpm's your not gonna know for sure what your best options are. Do your research is my best advice, you dont wanna pay for a pair of GN's only to find out a cheaper pair of volvo snails would have made the same peak power, better midrange, and been $100 cheaper...

Personally, and tastes may vary, i find almost every stock turbo ever put on any stock car... too small for a true performance application. They're on there to mimic a bigger motor in most cases. Stock turbo on MKiii Supras? It's one of the biggest stock single turbos ever put on a production vehicle. It's too small. Saab turbos? Please. I wouldn't want to pay for a pair of GN turbos either, they're likely expensive enough that you'd be better off finding a pair of aftermarket T3s. Spool though, wouldn't be a problem i wouldn't think. I have a GN turbo setup for a Probe/MX6 2.2 sitting here that's going on mndsm's car. Little 2.2 litre, should spool by 3000rpms quite easily. I run a CT26 from a MKiii Supra on mine, and it'll hit over 20psi by 3000rpms on the same 2.2 motor. I think a pair of 14bs from a DSM would not be a whole lot of fun on a 5.0. You'd be dropping off power like crazy in the top half of the RPM range.

well im going off the OP who is looking for junk yard bargains, so i listed options, ofc buying new is optimal but a pair of EOM's would do the job just fine.... supra tinws can make 450 WHP, i have seen it done, so are they ideal, maybe not but can they perform, heck yes.... if you can suggest better oem/ junk yard options by all means go ahead...

Well.. supra twins can make 450whp pushing them outside their efficiency zone, on an incredibly efficient motor that in n/a form with breathing mods and tune necessary to make that 450whp, is knocking on the door to 300whp anyways. Those turbos would probably suck on a 5.0 in my opinion. The 2jz with those turbos made 300lbft @ 1800rpm on a small 3.0 litre motor. We're talking spool at idle on a 5.0.

I haven't seen too many twin turbo MKiv supras in junkyards, though.

It all depends on what OP wants. If he wants a stump puller, then the DSMs as you posted are a great choice.

What about checking out the china turbo's (chinachargers) on ebay? You might get a weak one but you can buy two for the price of one new Garrett. Then you can size up or down depending on your application, mood, and/or race strategy.

My two cents, I'd go with a single large unit for simplicity purposes. I also would factor in an intercooler as for any boost levels above 5lbs you'll need it. Which reminds me...

What's the purpose of the car? If you're drag racing you may not need an intercooler as the pulls are short blasts. You could most likely get by with alcohol/water injection to cool the charge. If you're road racing you'll want an intercooler.

Also consider your timing and injector sizing. I don't know how much over head you have in your injectors to handle the boost. Timing will have to be retarded under boost either by retarding the timing for the engine, via a computer like a megasquirt, or via a piggyback controller with boost detecting ability.

I'm not as knowledgable about boosting Mustangs as I am about Miata's but that some info to chew on.

I have never used one but plain bearing borg warner turbos can be had for under a grand and it's a good unit at or near OEM quality. I know it's more expensive than used, but no worries about durability and you can use their maps to choose the exact one you want. Just use one, there is no need to use two.

The ebay turbos aren't that bad we've stuck a few of them on cars with no issues. Quality has gotten better.