I decided a while ago that I like engines with more than 4 cylinders. 6 is good. 8 is great. 10 is AWESOME. So, I think logically, the next step should be to find a V12 car. I ran through e-Bay just to see what is on there and I found some interesting things. Mercedes CL600, BMW 7 series, etc.
This one is an auction, so I can see it going for more. Should I want one of these? It's a 2001, so has it depreciated this much, or is it just that early in the auction?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-CL-Class-2dr-Cpe-5-8L-CL600-V12-45561-miles-clean-carfax-mint-like-new-condition-/291137738821?forcerrptr=true&hash=item43c9295845&item=291137738821&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
What else should I look for? I know BMWs well enough to wrench on them. Are there really good V12s that can be had for $20k or less?
Tons of Mercedes V12 can be had in the 7-10K range if you look and are willing to do a bit of cleanup. Then you can spend the other 10K over the next two years keeping it on the road.
The BMW 750i can be had running for Sub 2K in some markets but anything goes and its a boat anchor.
I think that after a viper, the Merc might be a bit of a let down. HOWEVER, if memory serves, those V12 Mercs make mountains of torque. That could be fund, you know, if you needed to spin the earth a little faster or slower.
wearymicrobe wrote:
Tons of Mercedes V12 can be had in the 7-10K range if you look and are willing to do a bit of cleanup. Then you can spend the other 10K over the next two years keeping it on the road.
The BMW 750i can be had running for Sub 2K in some markets but anything goes and its a boat anchor.
I hear those BMW 12s love to boost though! Megasquirt and some welding could make for killer road car.
I think VAC (was it VAC?) makes a clutch kit to mate BMWs v12 to more common BMW manual trannys (since the only stock MT comes from an 850i and is rare and expensive). The clutch kit isnt cheap either though.
I dream of a v12 5 series wagon in MT....
I wish I could say that the DB7 V12s were that cheap. But only the i6's are right now.
they look to be about $30-40k for the V12's. Great car, though.
And you can get a DB7 with a manual, which you can't with the Merc.
alfadriver wrote:
I wish I could say that the DB7 V12s were that cheap. But only the i6's are right now.
they look to be about $30-40k for the V12's. Great car, though.
And you can get a DB7 with a manual, which you can't with the Merc.
This way be blasphemy but I would hasard a guess that the I6's more fun and quite a bit more reliable.
http://youtu.be/f-Yg3aeh138
wearymicrobe wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
I wish I could say that the DB7 V12s were that cheap. But only the i6's are right now.
they look to be about $30-40k for the V12's. Great car, though.
And you can get a DB7 with a manual, which you can't with the Merc.
This way be blasphemy but I would hasard a guess that the I6's more fun and quite a bit more reliable.
I would confidently say that your guess is very wrong.
The V12 was just over 100lb ligher than the I6. The supercharger and iron block of the jag motor are just heavy. Whereas the aluminum parts of the V12 were darned light.
The reliability part- the v12 is derived from the darned reliable duratec v6 seen in millions of Tauriii, and it's no more stressed per cylinder than one of those. It also has far superior controls and electronics over the V6. Finally, the trans' used were quite different- instead of a GM derived auto, it's a ZF box, and the manual came from Borg Warner.
that all being said, i do admit more than a little bias toward the V12. from a career standpoint.
They did a aluminum casting in the I6 for the Aston. I thought all the AJ6 were aluminum. The supercharger might weight a good bit but not another blocks worth.
If we are talking questionably reliable 12 cylinder cars, I think we need to add Jags to the conversation.
In reply to wearymicrobe:
AJ6 engine are all aluminum. It is still an insanely heavy engine. The block was designed with a theoretical diesel in mind.
MG Bryan wrote:
In reply to wearymicrobe:
AJ6 engine are all aluminum. It is still an insanely heavy engine. The block was designed with a theoretical diesel in mind.
That would explain some car weights that I have seen in the past.
I have only worked on the Aston V12's and it was just easy to wrench stuff, I just remember that it was way easier then the V12's in the BMW's. My 850i when it needed work was a cluster buker.
wearymicrobe wrote:
They did a aluminum casting in the I6 for the Aston. I thought all the AJ6 were aluminum. The supercharger might weight a good bit but not another blocks worth.
Before installing into the first prototype, Aston weighed the V12 and compared that to the I6. The v12 is lighter. I guess I was assuming that the new jags were like the old ones- I didn't pay attention to the I6 cars that I saw... But I'm quite sure that the V12 was lighter- the techs who installed it in the first car told me before we started it for the first time.
And I'm not talking the Jag based V12, but the Ford based V12.
More power, lighter, more reliable- what's not to like?
Not that the engine was pefect- there were some details that once fixed gained quite a bit before going into the Vanquish.
singleslammer wrote:
I think that after a viper, the Merc might be a bit of a let down. HOWEVER, if memory serves, those V12 Mercs make mountains of torque. That could be fund, you know, if you needed to spin the earth a little faster or slower.
I wouldn't really be comparing it to the Viper. That would still be there for fun. I would really just be comparing it to whatever else I might consider buying in the "responsible" sedan realm. I mean, I could go out and buy a brand new Volt, or a base model 1 Series BMW, or... a used V-12 leviathan. I was just shocked that they're about the same price.
I probably won't buy a V-12 anything just yet. I was a little shocked last night at how accessible they were so the thought crossed my mind abruptly. Having to change 22 spark plugs between two road cars (oh yeah, 26 if you count the Miata), more than likely 50 quarts of oil every year, and disgustingly-expensive tires makes it seem less attractive. Oh. And fuel consumption. I'd be mad if the Viper was my "economy" car.
Some have said that the VW Phaeton is the best luxury sedan of that 3 or so year window that they were sold. People just didn't want it because of the Volkswagen brand. You can also get one with a W12.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aston-Martin-DB7-Vantage-Coupe-2-Door-black-on-cream-leather-custom-exhaust-/171321825171?forcerrptr=true&hash=item27e3939793&item=171321825171&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
Salvage title but cheap
singleslammer wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aston-Martin-DB7-Vantage-Coupe-2-Door-black-on-cream-leather-custom-exhaust-/171321825171?forcerrptr=true&hash=item27e3939793&item=171321825171&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
Salvage title but cheap
Last line in the ad- "Reserve under $29,000"
And it's an auto. Very good auto, but still and auto.
CL65 AMG (I've always wanted one of these)
I would love a BMW 8-series V12.
Mr_Clutch42 wrote:
Some have said that the VW Phaeton is the best luxury sedan of that 3 or so year window that they were sold. People just didn't want it because of the Volkswagen brand. You can also get one with a W12.
Yeah, I heard that too. It really does look like a big Passat, but I understand that they are fantastic cars. (Also, I like Passats.)
