VIN swapping?

Ok so I know swapping VIN numbers between vehicles is technically illegal but I mean you can build basically a brand new vintage Mustang with no old parts and I am assuming throw a VIN from an old rusted out shell on there. Or on frame off cars you can swap bodies from car to car. Are these technically illegal or is there some loop hole I am missing?

Its probably easier / legaler to apply for a new VIN as a custom car. I know rules, fees, inspection criteria etc vary from state to state, so YMMV, but thats the route I would go if I were building a kit car or body off hybrid.

I can't speak for Alabama, buy in New York if you have a 1952 Dodge one ton truck on a 1986 3/4 ton frame with a posi and 360, legally they call it a 1952.

You have to meet all the safety requirements of 1952 meaning headlights and one tail light. If you modify any of it, you have to modify all of it. I put on two tail lights, erring on the side of safety. Now I need turn signals up front, seatbelts etc. per 1986 rules.

Dan

I would assume its not legal. Contact your DMV. Do it the legal way.

It's technically illegal, which means it IS illegal. It will vary depending on your state, but those reproduction bodies are typically titled as a specially constructed car...they come with a manufacturer's statement of origin (MSO) which you use to get a state-issued VIN.

The only reason I can see for using a VIN plate off a wreck is to mislead people into thinking the new car is original. It isn't any different than finding a rusted out Shelby GT350 and transferring the VIN to a 6 cylinder automatic car.

Also, in the case of the early Mustangs, besides the official VIN tag they also have the VIN stamped on the driver's side inner fender in a very visible spot; any Mustang fan will immediately look at that stamp and know what the car is or isn't.

I "THINK", legally, you could cut the CAR from the VIN (yes, stupid I know). And re-attach the new replacement car to the VIN (Maybe VIN's).

Technically you cannot remove the VIN tag, but if you change all the parts that aren't attached to the VIN it should be legal. To the extreme, cutting around the tag and removing the car, is not removing the tag (?!). Maybe put the VIN cut out in a jig so it doesn't move(?).

Obviously semantics, and would probably be disallowed if asked, but it seems like it conforms to the law.

If you have the title and a pile of rust with a VIN here in MS, all you seem to have to do is rebuild and go get your new tag. At worst, you'd have to get a new VIN assigned, but that's simply a couple of forms and an inspection, then you get your VIN and can go get the tag for it.

I doubt any of that will help you evade taxes: those will kill you if you have a brand new 2011 Shelby GT500

I think one would say that it is technically a FELONY. Perhaps one of the Esquires would like to site specifics.

i think i remember seeing something about this on one of those build-a-car-and-auction-it shows that used to be on tv. apparently the vin tag can never be removed from the firewall legally even if it is replaced on the same car. in the show i was watching, the auction got stopped because a vin tag on one of the cars was apparently removed for body repairs and then pop riveted back on. the dmv of whatever state that was in impounded the car to investigate and the hosts were discussing the illegal nature of removing the tag

I thought the hot rod guys did it all the time. You see lots of brand new hot rods running around with old Vins.

In one article I'm almost certain I read that there were at least 3 times as many 32 Fords on the road today than the factory made.

When does doing major rust repair creep into VIN swapping? 49% of a car's body structure replaced due to rust...is that still the same car and does that VIN number still pertain to that car? Does it change at 50 or 51%? What happens when I have a CJ-5 and buy a new fiberglass body to replace the rusted one? Is it still a registerable vehicle? Or replacing the frame? Both are available from the aftermarket. What then?

In reply to RossD:

That is my question. I mean if the VIN number is attached to the firewall and for some you cut it out and replace it. What do you do then?

Replacement parts are legal. Even if the replacement part is an entire body shell. In which case you generally take the vin tag off the now discarded body part, and place it on the replacement body part. Even if that body part is the entire shell or tub.

If you are building a car from mixed parts, especially a pile of new parts that don't have a VIN assigned to a vehicle anywhere, you get to apply for a new VIN. You can do it as a custom vehicle, or a 32 Ford. For indeed, there are many more completely legal 32 Fords than were ever built in the 30's by Ford.

If the aformentioned pile of parts that is being made into a vehicle includes a part from a VIN taged vehicle, and that part has the VIN number affixed, you can pretty easily and legally make the pile of parts into that particular vehicle again. There is no restriction on the quantity of repair parts used in fixing a vehicle. In this case, most of the vehicle will be repair parts.

Having 2 Mustangs, one titled and the other not, swapping the vin plate to the titled one would constitute fraud, and you would have a very hard time convincing a judge that you simply replaced parts. Especially if you were foolish enough to tell people what you had done.

Follow the difference?

Ok so let's say you have two cars. One you are using the chassis from and one you are using the body from (of approximately the same model). And one of them has a clean title can you swap the VIN number around. I am not in this situation for any of this but I was digging around about titling vehicles and it just got me wondering.

carguy123 wrote: I thought the hot rod guys did it all the time. You see lots of brand new hot rods running around with old Vins.

A lot of them do it, but that doesn't make it legal...Boyd Coddington got into hot water with the Feds for doing it some years back.

Most of the reproduction 32 Fords on the road are titled as specially constructed vehicles, or whatever a particular state calls them.

Actually you can swap a VIN to a replacement body shell legally, it's called "rebodied" and it gets branded on the title. There's a many a Shelby Mustang with the original engine, trans, and VIN on a replacement shell due to a wreck, rust, etc. The Registry even keeps track of the rebody as well. A lot of classic Ferrari's are like this as well (some even got rebodied at the factory). Note that in order to do this you have to jump through some serious DMV/DOT hoops and they usually attach a secondary VIN type tag next to your VIN showing the state legality of it, etc.

Just popping the VIN on and off yourself is fraud and very illegal. Boyd, Classic Recreations, and many, many others have been stung for it, even though some of them did it unintentionally.

There is a guy in my hometown who restores Mopars of all sorts to past(!) 100pt/reference resto quality. He explained that it would be easier to "clip" an E-body front end, but to keep the VIN legal, he has to fix the one frame rail first, then he can redo the core support, and then finally the other rail.... All the while costing the owner of the car an additional 4k-ish. All because of the VIN tag on the core support.....

At what point is it no longer Abe Lincoln's Ax?

Im going to be swapping vins on a car. It involves swapping dashboards which the vin plate is mounted to, and making sure there arent any other vins on the body. That seems to be it in my case. I own the vin im using and the car was abandoned and not reported stolen. The car the vin used to be attached to (perfectly legally) is probably a girder in some bridge in china by now. Whatevs.

If there was an easier way to fix VINs on cars noone cares about that didnt cost more than an entire car noone cares about.. i'd probably do it that way.

Vigo wrote: Im going to be swapping vins on a car. It involves swapping dashboards which the vin plate is mounted to, and making sure there arent any other vins on the body. That seems to be it in my case. I own the vin im using and the car was abandoned and not reported stolen. The car the vin used to be attached to (perfectly legally) is probably a girder in some bridge in china by now. Whatevs. If there was an easier way to fix VINs on cars noone cares about that didnt cost more than an entire car noone cares about.. i'd probably do it that way.

If you own both VIN's it's actually stupid easy and costs about $30 to have the "rebody", at least in this state. It's when 1 or the other has questionable ownership that you hit problems.

stuart in mn wrote: The only reason I can see for using a VIN plate off a wreck is to mislead people into thinking the new car is original.

Here's why I want to do it: the Manic Miata is a 1996 and is nowhere near OBDII compliant. If it was a 1994, that wouldn't be an issue.

Here in Texas it is pretty cheap, if not quick, to reassign a VIN. It has been a few years since I did this but you need the VTR 68a/n, ownership papers. Then you need to get an inspection report done (usually Auto Theft unit at your local PD). Take that paperwork to the tax office along with the vehicle, picture of vehicle, and $2 and they can affix the reassigned vin plate. You will also need proof of ownership of the major components such as the motor, trans, body, and frame. If you dont have that proof then you will need a court order or a tax assessor hearing order.

That being said, if you are just switching the dash or vin tag I can guarantee that you will fail the pd inspection much less the tax office. And at least in Texas if an officer even thinks that there is something hinky with your vin and non matching engine/tranny/frame numbers your car can be seized on the spot. If that happens then the burden is on you to prove everything is legitimate.

Seem like a pain yet? Because it is...

914Driver wrote: I can't speak for Alabama, buy in New York if you have a 1952 Dodge one ton truck on a 1986 3/4 ton frame with a posi and 360, legally they call it a 1952. You have to meet all the safety requirements of 1952 meaning headlights and one tail light. If you modify any of it, you have to modify all of it. I put on two tail lights, erring on the side of safety. Now I need turn signals up front, seatbelts etc. per 1986 rules. Dan

Pics, Link or ban

I need to replace the dash pad on my 86 Nissan truck. The VIN is attached to the dash pad? Is it legal for me to remove the VIN from the old dash and re-attach it to the new dash? Thankfully, I cannot find an NOS dash pad anywhere.

Illegal, yes. Immoral, not necessarily. You can put the VIN plate in a jig and replace every single part of the car around it and that's legal, but putting a new VIN in a car is not legal.

I had a motorcycle that was a similar thing. It didn't have a title. I bought a busted frame with a title for $10. Legally I had to switch all the parts over to the busted frame but I just moved the VIN plate over to the old bike.

Of course, that was back when they still used VIN plates on bikes instead of those stickers.