Vintage Racing?

What can anyone tell me about vintage racing? I have decided that is the direction my '64 Spit is going to go. I downloaded the rules for both SVRA and HSR. Basically I am looking for any experience or anything that can set me on the right path.

several times, Classic Motorsports has talked about the Vintage Auto Racing Association and their VARA University training program...that appears to just be a west coast thing, though.

I've only spectated at vintage events. I really like them. My take is that there are a lot of folks with a lot of money who run at these events, but there are also folks who do it on a more budget friendly scale. The racing is fun to watch with a great mix of old cars, rich dudes having fun, regular guys living their dreams, and retired race drivers showing why they were on time pros.

Head over to Road Atlanta for the HSR event in a couple weeks if you can. Wander the paddock and talk with the drivers and check out the cars.

aeronca65t (sp?)should post here in a bit. His Spridget should be a good inspiration for you.

Vintage racing is my long term plan for my old Volvo as well. GRM just did a piece about vintage racing a few issues ago.

The most important thing I've found is to look at the groups that run in your area and build your car to their rules.

Then, safety, brakes, suspension and engine in that order. I basically plan to build my car and run a stock engine at first, run in the back and stay out of trouble.

I agree with the budget comment. We're heading up to Watkins Glen this week for the vintage festival and there will be everything from huge race haulers to guys with open trailers and sleeping in tents.

T.J. wrote: aeronca65t (sp?)should post here in a bit. His Spridget should be a good inspiration for you.

He was a great source of info at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix this summer. I plan on doing vintage racing at some point and I feel very good about doing it on a budget.

The August 2011 issue should answer many of your questions--who to call, what to expect, etc. Also, check out Classic Motorsports, too. Lots of vintage racing info in there.

I run a Spridget in vintage racing, although I took the last year off. I ran 6 or 7 events a year for 10 years and got a bit burned out. Not to mention a guy at my last race ran out of talent the ran into me, as they say. Caused some significant damage that I just haven't had the heart to fix.

Probably the most frustrating thing about being a budget vintage racer nowadays is that the rules and enforcement thereof are definitely not in your favor. The bottomless pocket guys have convinced the racing orgs that they should have every modern toy they can throw on a racecar. The cars may look like the old cars, but the rules have been pushed into the modern era. The result is that the budget, authentic guy isn't really racing with vintage cars. If you are happy being back of the pack, then you'll have fun and you'll probably have folks to race with. But if you are a competitive person you'll either spend yourself into oblivion or quit out of frustration.

I'll be there too, with the huge race hauler and the rich old dudes having fun. ( FYI, I'm just the poor old dude making money off the rich old dudes )

Stop by if you can and check out the cars.

They are running at Lime Rock on Monday. Might be able to get some info there.

Yep a good number of Friends are at Lime Rock this weekend.

And you can go vintage racing on a tight budget. Its hard, but do able.

Spitfire it a good platform to develop on. Lots of good knowledge out there.

http://www.fot-racing.com/ Good place to start.

And here too. http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/

A.

It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on! I bought a $200 rubber bumper Spridget and dropped a junkyard motor in it ten years ago. I got about five years out of that motor with modest maintenance and short-shifting (under 5800 RPM). My car is pure low-budget with lots of "sweat equity" and no exotic parts. I run stock, steel wheels, an open diff and normal trans/clutch. If you want to win you can spend zillions, but the truth is, it's more fun running mid-pack with a gang of other little ankle-biters. I actually led one race this year (at NHMS) and it turned out to be boring for me.

You can see most of my races ~HERE~

I shot this ~In Car Video~ about five weeks ago.

We skipped Lime Rock this year because we're still doing a bit of hurricane cleanup.

I'd recommend you attend the VRG Fall event at Watkins Glen, or even better, their Turkey Bowl.
They usually have a one-weekend driver's school at NHMS in May. If you do well, you get your license ( and you do not need a vintage-legal car for the school)

http://www.vrgonline.org/events/

I'm working on a triumph TR4 as a budget vintage racer. Mostly stuck in bodywork purgatory now. In the midwest the group is the VSCDA. Most of the vintage organizations follow the 1972 SCCA GCR. Engine internals are pretty much open so the money people can throw the checkbook at it. Weird that internals are pretty open, but twin webers or mikunis will bump me from D to C. But as others said, there's folks who just want to be out on a budget having fun and running stock or near stock engines. I expect to be bringing up the rear. Contact is frowned on - wonder how that will be with miatas making the list in the near future?

Kas Kastner competition prep book and friends of triumph archive are your friends.

Lime rock is long way from me. I may well go to the race out at Road Atlanta.

Basil Exposition wrote: If you are happy being back of the pack, then you'll have fun and you'll probably have folks to race with. But if you are a competitive person you'll either spend yourself into oblivion or quit out of frustration.

This is the general way of things in all of club type racing it seems. A little money allows you to play around but to get to the pointy end of the field... you need a lot more. I have had some epic battles for 13th or 10th place this season in my home-made $10k E30 mod car... but I'm still 40 sec and $110k out of the top spot after a 25 lap sprint. Some of that is driver experience and talent for sure... but damn if a pro built and maintained touring car wouldn't improve my odds a little.

I have been thinking that I could vintage race a spec car like an SRF where its still not cheap (nothing is, really) - but I can prepare the car to the top of the rules just like everyone else for about the same budget I use for club racing and they are simple machines to tune and repair - and the field is more or less equal.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I have been thinking that I could vintage race a spec car [...] and the field is more or less equal.

Just like spec miata, where the engines are "identical" except that when they aren't. The rich folk will always have a faster revving, better balanced mill:
http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000055;p=0

I couldn't tell you what Sunbelt does, but I can tell you from experience with many years in Showroom Stock what a team with resources does. The rules state as Noel describes: pull it apart, measure it to make sure it's within manufacturer's tolerances, and bolt it back together. No blueprinting, where you modify the parts to be at the nominal value of those specs, is allowed. However, there's one problem with that theory: there's no way to prove that the parts in your engine came with 'that' engine or car, nor is there anything in the rules that does not allow you to install replacement parts. In other words, who's to say that "this" #1 piston came with "this" engine block? So, while I cannot machine my cylinder bores to have the nominal piston-to-bore clearance, what's to stop me from going into the parts bin and choosing the optimal piston to fit into that bore? What's to stop me from picking from a binload of rods to find four that are perfectly balanced (and the lightest of the bunch)? What's to stop me from choosing a crankshaft that offers the nominal rod bearing clearance? Is this illegal? To the spirit of the rules, absolutely. To the letter of the rules, I can argue "no".

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Basil Exposition wrote: If you are happy being back of the pack, then you'll have fun and you'll probably have folks to race with. But if you are a competitive person you'll either spend yourself into oblivion or quit out of frustration.

I have been thinking that I could vintage race a spec car like an SRF where its still not cheap (nothing is, really) - but I can prepare the car to the top of the rules just like everyone else for about the same budget I use for club racing and they are simple machines to tune and repair - and the field is more or less equal.

Spec Racer Fords seem to be really expensive from everything I've seen, can you elaborate on what you mean by this last post?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I have been thinking that I could vintage race a spec car like an SRF where its still not cheap (nothing is, really) - but I can prepare the car to the top of the rules just like everyone else for about the same budget I use for club racing and they are simple machines to tune and repair - and the field is more or less equal.

If you want to run (in vintage) on a budget, but still finish in the front for modest money, Formula Vee is the way to go.

And ditto on epic battles for 13th place......I've had a ton of those "backmarker battles" and that's the real reason I race.

In reply to aeronca65t:

Formula V sounds fun, but looking at it from a pure cost POV, were I to go to GCR instead of vintage, I'd go with F500. The main reason I want to try vintage is because I already have the car that needs a reason to be saved. Plus, it's not too hard to keep a vintage car street legal and still be fun.

If you are looking for the cheapest way to go vintage racing, FV is probably it. Though I think some vintage organizations will throw you in with fendered cars, which can be disconcerting, so say the least. Rules creep is minimal, as well, but you can't expect that cheaters will be caught-- there just isn't the enforcement. Not trying to be downer here, just know what you are getting into so you do it for the right reasons. If it really bugs you that there might be cheating going on, then you won't have the right mind set. Peter Egan wrote a good article about cheating in vintage FF some years ago-- just goes with the territory, unfortunately. BTW, FF is another good way to go, though it is more expensive than FV and probably a low budget production car.

Does anyone do SRF in vintage? Not aware of it, but lots of organizations have been expanding classes because of shrinking attendance...

SVRA is probably a prime example of a group that let the rules get out of control. They've lost a lot of production racers because of it, but if you ask them they don't have a clue that that could be the reason. Some of the larger organizations don't cotton on to the fact that the guy in the Can-Am car and the guy in the Spridget/Spitfire/MGB pay exactly the same entry fees and there are a lot more of the latter, especially on the low budget end. I mean, just how many people can field a $75,000 MGB racecar (and there is at least one in SVRA)?

If you are building a car, don't build it to the SVRA rules if you want to race with other clubs. You want a car that can go anywhere, so look to the organizations with the tightest rules. Though you could race a SVRA car on a one-time per year basis with just about any club, when it comes time to sell it you might be limited.

Joshua wrote: Spec Racer Fords seem to be really expensive from everything I've seen, can you elaborate on what you mean by this last post?

You can buy a top finishing SRF for $13-18k with spares and setup sheets. The cars are light and don't eat up rubber. They are a spec chassis built as a race car - so the parts are mostly tubes and rod ends. It uses a cheap motor, no LSD and so on. I think a season can be as inexpensive as tires, pads and maintenance if you start well prepared with a good car.

Hmmm, that isn't bad but we still have different ideas of cheap

I didn't know SRF were eligible for vintage.

Joshua wrote: Hmmm, that isn't bad but we still have different ideas of cheap I didn't know SRF were eligible for vintage.

They started in '84 as Spec Renault and became SR Fords in '89 so... either way, there are cars that are 20+ years old.

aeronca65t wrote: If you want to run (in vintage) on a budget, but still finish in the front for modest money, Formula Vee is the way to go. And ditto on epic battles for 13th place......I've had a ton of those "backmarker battles" and that's the *real* reason I race.

I have a problem embracing the open wheeled cars. I have driven a friends a few laps around Pocono East and its fun... but so alien a driving style compared to a sedan that it is more like a kart with suspension than anything else I can relate to. Not ruling it out... but I would struggle to go fast initially.

I've seen some FF's that would be a blast to drive for not too much money. They make a fun autocross car as well.

T.J. wrote: I've seen some FF's that would be a blast to drive for not too much money. They make a fun autocross car as well.

I have been looking for a long time for an old Formula car or DSR that is well priced but can't find much other than F500's.

What do you guys consider a good deal on say an old Formula Ford, FV or whatever else?

As far as DSR's go I haven't even been able to find one that isn't already a highly developed racer and going for $20,000! My dream is to find one that hasn't been used in a while and presents a clean slate for me to build on...