W8 in a 944.

I know I know but I just think I would be cool. So would it fit and what I the trans bolt pattern on these?

Great idea. I'll follow this. How much are those w8 engines going for?

I went looking for information and first I found this;

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a24613/video-volkswagen-passat-w8-wagon-straight-pipes/

So that's cool. Then I found this vwvortex thread where a W8 gets bolted up to a trans meant for some 1.8t car. There's also a lot of info about W8 parts being non-available, like bearing shells.

Lookit here; http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6953491-Doing-the-impossible-Rebuilding-a-Passat-W8-engine&p=85370955&viewfull=1#post85370955

So I think this means yes about bolting to a 944 torque tube?

I like the concept, but hear the engine is a bit of a problem child. I'd think a 4.2 would be closer to the easy button

dean1484 wrote: I know I know but I just think I wool be cool. So would it fit and what I the trans bolt pattern on these?

W8 is unrelated to I5/V8 which is what the Porsche 924 also uses (Audi block). I am pretty sure that it is W8 specific and unrelated to the VR6 as well. (No idea where W12s fit in)

I'm a bit of a W8 Passat fan. The difficulty will be that W8 engines are incredibly rare. They didn't sell many here, and cam chain failure is near 100% certainty. Replacing the cam chains is shockingly expensive even for a DIY-er, I think my JOBBER cost for the parts to do it is $1500ish. Not counting the cam solenoids, which are another failure point and kinda should be replaced if you have the chains off. Add another couple thou' to that.

Good used engines are essentially nonexistent, if you find one expect it to be roughly what a running W8 Passat is worth. Last I checked, it was about $8-10k. Short lived engines and more or less immortal chassis means wrecks or engine failure is why it's in a junkyard... and a wreck is also likely to take the engine out.

Mind you, I still WANT a W8 Passat. I'm not sure if this is crazy or stupid.

4.2 V8 (beltdrive) would be a much better idea. The reason for the W8 was largely because VW wanted to put a premium engine in the B5 chassis and they wanted to use a VW engine and not an Audi engine. The S4 got the 2.7t and VW made the W8, which is slightly shorter than the four cylinder but wider than the V6. The 944 has a long narrow engine bay, exactly the opposite of a B5.

VW stopped doing the W8 with the end of their use of the B5 chassis, and the B6 was designed to take the new chain-drive 4.2 V8 so Audi went with that instead of a twinturbo V6.

I think the biggest selling point for the W8 is it's sound. Otherwise it's an orphaned, underpowered, failure prone, problem child.

But all that aside, cool swaps are always entertaining so I support your endeavor.

In reply to KyAllroad:

It's a 4.0 liter V8 outputting about 270 hp and 270 lb/ft of torque. It's not topping charts with that output but I don't know if it's "underpowered". Should shove a 944 along pretty well. It might not be so hot in an automatic, AWD station wagon like the heaviest Passat's it was installed in.

I just like the concept of the motor. I was looking around Craigslist and you can pick up good running W8 cars from 1500 for a car with 150k to cars with about 100k for 2500-3000. That is nothing special running car pricing in my book. Since there is little if any call for these motors or these cars for that matter I bet the local pick and pull would price it as such. It also caught my eye that they are longitudinally mounted and were offered with a manual. All this to me screams RWD swap. The bad is 270 hp stock from 4.2l. Either it is really under stressed or it was purposely detuned as there is a weak point in the motor that they tuned to. However those power specs are in my book exactly what a 944 needs and the added torque would help as well. Basically the specs of this motor I think would work very well with the 944 chassis. Yes ls or sbc or sbf are the easy button for a 944 but I am always looking for that different alternative.

This is all just a mental exercise on my part. Just me thinking again but hay I will keep my eye out for a W8 car/motor and who knows.

That's a big motor. My LS is a tight fit into my 951 already, I couldn't imagine the W8 fitting. Plus why bother going through all that expense and effort to end up with a motor that's more maintenance intensive and makes far less power than an LS?

dean1484 wrote: I just like the concept of the motor. I was looking around Craigslist and you can pick up good running W8 cars from 1500 for a car with 150k to cars with about 100k for 2500-3000. That is nothing special running car pricing in my book. Since there is little if any call for these motors or these cars for that matter I bet the local pick and pull would price it as such.

what.

When I was looking last year, a POS was in the $5-6k range and a good runner was $8-10k. And there was that super rare 6 speed model which was like 1 of 100ish sold in North America. (I consider the W8 to be the thinking man's S4. A more refined and civilized device than some brash boy-racer turbo thing)

When I would go W8 hunting I would use a 500mi radius so MA should have been in there.

A Nissan VQ35/37 is lighter, more reliable, and puts out more power and torque. And far more available in junkyards these days....just saying.

Yeah, that's a bit big. You'd probably have to build a new crossmember.

The bell housing is different, so you'd have to build an adapter or cut the bell housing off a donor transaxle and adapt it to the torque tube.

You know what, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the automatic W8 had one timing case and the manual had the other. Maybe the manual trans timing case can bolt up to a standard 01A/01E?

01A/01E have both the four cylinder and the five cylinder bolt pattern, no way to say if VW used one or the other or some of both for the W8. You'd want to have the five cylinder bolt pattern to bolt into a 924.

I specify 924 because I am not sure if the 944 engine has the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing end. (The 944's transmission is pure Audi 5cyl, though, where the torque tube bolts to it. It's just a FWD 016 with a different input shaft. Audi guys will buy LSD Porsche transaxles to scavenge the diff as that is the "cheapest" way to get a limited slip front diff for an older Audi)

The 944 bell housing is different than the 924, but the torque tube mounting pattern is the same.

The 924 turbo uses the same larger spline torque tube and Audi transaxle as the 944, the 924 NA uses a smaller spline setup that isn't quite as strong and the clutch is cable actuated versus the hydraulic setup on the 924 Turbo and 944.

Ah, so you use the 944 torque tube and the 924 bellhousing then?

There've been people doing I5 swaps into 944s for quite a while. The only time I ever really saw pictures was a guy who made a tubeframe for a Rabbit with plans to have a 944 drivetrain and Audi V8 (I5 pattern). The bellhousing patterns weren't close. Must've been a 944 bellhousing.

Incidentally, the left side motor mount arm on the I5s still had the provision to hold the clutch cable, as a holdover from the 70s' pushrod four-cylinder that the 924 engine was based on. I don't know if they used that arm right up until the last of the S4/S6s in 1995, but the late 80s 5000/200 Turbos still did.

More random trivia while I'm thinking of it, the I5 mounts are all heavily staggered to clear the side-mounted radiator. Left side mount is quite a bit further back in the chassis.

The same goes for the Touareg/Cayenne/Q7. Looks like the motor mounts are in the same orientation as in an Audi 5000...

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: Yeah, that's a bit big. You'd probably have to build a new crossmember. The bell housing is different, so you'd have to build an adapter or cut the bell housing off a donor transaxle and adapt it to the torque tube.

Yeepers that is wide. Re the cross member I would see about getting one from the car it came from and mounting that in the 944.

$1500 W8 but it needs a service. Part out the rest of it to hopfully cover the service of the W8

http://providence.craigslist.org/cto/5368002425.html

Or see about moving the entire AWD system to the 944.

I think an AWD 944 would be a hoot. Then add some boost..... Oh.... Now I am cooking up a whole new bad idea.....

"Runs and drives needs timing chain service" = show up with a flatbed. If it NEEDS a chain, it will be barely running and may go from expensive to hideously expensive with no warning.

Not foolin' around. I mean don't even start the thing, winch it onto the trailer and roll it into your garage.

Wonder if it needs one due to issues or if it is a scheduled service.

What is the scheduled service on those?

When it fails you buy a new car. There is no scheduled service, if you go past 60k miles then you are an environmental terrorist who should be driving a new car since new cars are cleaner than old ones. (See also: Fill-for-life transmission fluid/other fluids, 20k oil change intervals)

Typical failure mode is, the car makes a loud rattle/clunk when you shut it off. That is one of the cams jumping time because the tensioner can't take up the slack anymore. When you next start it, it will be running on four cylinders, poorly. The cam can and will jump again and this is when you go from replacing a timing set to pulling the heads.

Is there a scheduled timing chain and tentioner service on these?

https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/display/tech/Maintenance+Schedule+-+2004+-+Passat,+Passat+Wagon

Interesting. No chain or tensioner noted to be changed. Hummmmm

I'm fairly sure the timing chain is on the back of this engine. I can't see VW scheduling an engine out service on a Passat that would cost what, $3-4K, or more. Who would buy that car?