Wanting a dedicated AutoX car

gts has a 4age

DILYSI Dave wrote: If you want to build a dedicated car for the class, why would you do anything other than what is known to work, unless you have an idea that you think will beat the known quantity? That just seems like a way to dump money into losing. Don't spend money and lose = OK Spend money to win = OK Spend money to lose = Dumb IMO. Philosophy out of the way, the oddball that I think has a chance against the Civics is the Suzuki Swift GTi.

Oh... i'm not going to dump a TON of money into this car, and i simply just don't want a Civic. The goal WILL be to be competitive if i decide to spend more money later, i'd just like to try another avenue than the Civic. Much like STS_ZX2 is doing, i'd like to prove that there IS another answer.

An EGT should have a pretty good shot, in my opinion. As would the FX16. There's other cars out there that i think COULD take out the Civic, but people just tend to run the Civic because of the "sheople" philosophy. (Please, no one take that as an attack. It's a proven platform, and i recognize that.) I'd just like to prove that another platform has a chance. STS_ZX2 is working on the Escort, i'd like to maybe try something else, even though an EGT is getting hard to resist. Plus side to the EGT is that i already have a decent idea of how to set one up, and i know what they're capable of, since i own one.

The EF dominates in nearly any class that it is classed well because its DNA is better. It combines lightweight, decent power, a great suspension, and a strong aftermarket all into one package. Nothing else has that combination, which is why it will be VERY tough to do better. Others mentioned here have the lightweight and/or power. The aftermarket isn't necessary, it just makes things easier and cheaper. The real problem you will face is suspension. Nearly every other car that is a reasonable fit for the class has a vastly inferior suspension. The 88-00 Civic has a starting point that is just leaps and bounds better than it's competition. That is why it is popular - not because of sheeple.

Many of the same things DILYSI Dave said can also be said of the Miata. If you're looking at ST[S] and you don't want a Civic, a Miata's probably the next best STS car. ST, it's a little more open. A 2.5RS has its advantages (AWD, torque, grip), and disadvantages (weight, suspension not as good as the Civic). I ran a 95 Saturn SC2 in ST for a few years. It was fun - partly because racing a Saturn at all tends to turn heads - but even in full ST trim it would be no match for a prepped Civic Si. A Neon's a good thought - they owned D Stock back in the day, and are more powerful than Civics. I'm also thinking a B13 Sentra SE-R would work well too (not just because I recently got one, though that does give me some perspective). It weighs more than a Civic, but its factory VLSD is ST legal, it has more power and torque, and the handling's pretty sharp too.

I have this hunch that my geo prizm lsi (4a-fe, 1.8L ballerstatusmotor from yota land) with proper tires and setup would be decent in H stock.

I hear those Minis are stupid quick though.

Dooood, this has you written all over it

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Celica-SCCA-ITA-NASA-Race-Car_W0QQitemZ330418613053QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4cee7beb3d

I've driven an ST SE-R. Had good power. More than the Civics. The strut suspension killed it though.

A Neon, as I recall, was the last FWD McStrut car to be in the trophies at Nationals. I belive the SE-R has some shortcommings in the front suspension that are hard to overcome...like it cant be lowered much because of roll centers/camber gain...and to make it kind of work you need to run million-pound springs.

The EGT that you already have would seem to be a no-brainer--mainly because, well, you already have it.

Will Kalman mad his STS EGT go pretty fast before the EFs began to completely dominate ST(S). We used his setup as a template for the ZX2--though we ended up a just a little stiffer on spring rates.

The best-of-the-best EFs are insanely well-prepared and just as well driven. I don't see anything that can or will beat them with any degree of regularity. They, as stated above, have a wonderful combination of attributes...not to mention a great aftermarket, and a tried-and-true recipe to follow for a build-up. Its the only ST car that goes to CSP--that should say something right there.

.

mazda mx-3 1.8...

In reply to ReverendDexter: yep, cosmetic bits and more likely to have power windows, sunroof, and the seats are heavier too. the base still has discs all around, too.

From experience I can say that wheel fitment in the rear can be tricky. The struts are fairly vertical and pushed out as far as possible for cargo space. 15x7.5 +38s barely touch the strut without a spacer, with a 1/4" spacer, they rub on the inner edge of the fender flare. And with 205/50-15s, it doesnt take much to get them to rub the fender liners up front.

EGT and the Neon are super cheap around here and the dual cam Neon that I had (250,000 +) was just plain fun to drive... and loved to rev!

I'm currently running around in a second gen RX7 5-speed LSD and I'm super surprised how well this car handles. I will hit some local autocrosses this month just to see what it can do.

Taiden wrote: I have this hunch that my geo prizm lsi (4a-fe, 1.8L ballerstatusmotor from yota land) with proper tires and setup would be decent in H stock. I hear those Minis are stupid quick though.

I've driven one of those... it might be DECENT in HStock, but there's a lot of cars that would mob all over it. We mentioned the EGT. That's one of them.

aussiesmg wrote: Dooood, this has you written all over it http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Celica-SCCA-ITA-NASA-Race-Car_W0QQitemZ330418613053QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4cee7beb3d

It does... they pop up from time to time, and i REALLY REALLY want one.

If i had the cash, i would jump on it. But i don't. Want to spot me?

But i'm unsure if i want another celica... if i were to get one for ST duty it would either be an 88-89 GTS or a 90-99 ST.

STS_ZX2 wrote: A Neon, as I recall, was the last FWD McStrut car to be in the trophies at Nationals. I belive the SE-R has some shortcommings in the front suspension that are hard to overcome...like it cant be lowered much because of roll centers/camber gain...and to make it kind of work you need to run million-pound springs. The EGT that you already have would seem to be a no-brainer--mainly because, well, you already have it. Will Kalman mad his STS EGT go pretty fast before the EFs began to completely dominate ST(S). We used his setup as a template for the ZX2--though we ended up a just a little stiffer on spring rates. The best-of-the-best EFs are insanely well-prepared and just as well driven. I don't see *anything* that can or will beat them with any degree of regularity. They, as stated above, have a wonderful combination of attributes...not to mention a great aftermarket, and a tried-and-true recipe to follow for a build-up. Its the only ST car that goes to CSP--that should say something right there. .

The EGT would be a good choice, but there's two problems with it:

1) I believe it's already beyond ST rules.
2) It's the girlfriends car, and in the next couple months will fit better in Street Mod due to a heart transplant. BPT FTW

I think i can pull off something other than a Civic regionally, because we don't really have the best of the best EFs to the best of my knowledge.

grimmelshanks wrote: gts has a 4age

So did the FX-16.

Let's add Isuzu Impulse and Stylus to the list.

What about an early-mid 90's Mitsubishi Mirage LS Coupe--(Colt/Summit as well)--

I see they are only about 2100 pounds and have a 1.8 twincam with about 115hp...

reverenddexter, sorry youre right for some reason i got confused and thought you were talking about the base corolla fx. i actually agree with what you were saying about the fx-16 vs gts

I've been having this debate since I started in auto-x last year. IMO, if you want to run somewhat inexpensively, the best option from what I've seen is E-Stock as there are 3 cars there, reasonably priced, that all have a chance of winning on a given day: NA Miata, 2nd Gen MR2 & the 944. Plus, this class seems reasonably stable so it doesn't seem likely a new over-dog will show up anytime soon.

For a more 'pure' dedicated car, the other options are B-Mod and F-Mod, but both require additional transportation (although both are light enough to be towed by most cars). Again, the advantage there is a reasonably stable rule set.

Ian_F wrote: I've been having this debate since I started in auto-x last year. IMO, if you want to run somewhat inexpensively, the best option from what I've seen is E-Stock as there are 3 cars there, reasonably priced, that all have a chance of winning on a given day: NA Miata, 2nd Gen MR2 & the 944. Plus, this class seems reasonably stable so it doesn't seem likely a new over-dog will show up anytime soon. For a more 'pure' dedicated car, the other options are B-Mod and F-Mod, but both require additional transportation (although both are light enough to be towed by most cars). Again, the advantage there is a reasonably stable rule set.

I'm too much of a nutjob to run stock class. I get irritated driving stock cars to get groceries, let alone hooning them around some cones. I know it's not really the "right" way to look at it, but i just don't enjoy screwing around with stock cars.

STS_ZX2 wrote: What about an early-mid 90's Mitsubishi Mirage LS Coupe--(Colt/Summit as well)-- I see they are only about 2100 pounds and have a 1.8 twincam with about 115hp...

I think you may be a mind-reader. I searched high and low this afternoon, and came up with this:

http://muncie.craigslist.org/cto/1673252077.html

Though... they are single cams. But yes, they're real light, and don't really give up any power to the EFs.

And they're EXTREMELY cheap. I left a message for this guy, we'll see if he calls back. I'm going to try to get it for $500.

I've definitely got plenty of options now, though.

hmm... well, the "ultimate" auto-x car for a tinkerer would be a Locost built for D-Mod.

Ian_F wrote: hmm... well, the "ultimate" auto-x car for a tinkerer would be a Locost built for D-Mod.

That'd be well and good if i had a garage, full compliment of tools, and if i was a better wrench than your average Jiffy Lube jockey.

aussiesmg wrote: Dooood, this has you written all over it http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Celica-SCCA-ITA-NASA-Race-Car_W0QQitemZ330418613053QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4cee7beb3d

UGH.

Someone got that sucker for under $3000. That's a STEAL.

Hell, that could turn up at the Challenge.

why not go 125 shifter cat and really kick thier ass.......