We need to talk oil...

Thanks for the info Harry!

EastCoastMojo wrote: Ok, I would like to know what you serious oil guys would recommend for a '93 mazda b2200 with 275k? I have been using 5W40, which is what's on the 710 cap. Is there something else I should consider? Max life oil opinions?

There's no downside to max life oils except a little bit of coinage.

67King wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: Harry King (Performance Racing Oils)....

That would be me. Will try to address what I can really quickly. Forgive typos, I'll spare the details as to why. Anyway..... And if anyone here is concerned by that, and they are talking about a street car, don't be. They are very good oils. All of these OEM specifications you read about (LL01 229.51, Dexos, A40, etc.....) are specify a Group III. There is only one OEM spec which will involve any "true" synthetics. I forget which, but it is a VW spec that has an extremely low pour point that necessitates a little PAO. Race oils are a VERY different discussion. If y'all want me to, I'll elaborate, but I didn't see anything on that when I scanned it. On the Ford stuff, the mods specifically. I actually used to work on those. Did engine development for Ford for several years before relocating back to where the climate suits my coat. The 20 weight is relatively new. We were migrating to it when we were doing the early, early work on the 5.0L Coyote. The older 4.6's all used heavier oil. The tensioner failures alluded to weren't unique to Ford (and we've helped a professional race team solve a problem related to this thing, but that's confidential as they are sponsored by a competitor.......point is, it is an inherent risk with chain driven D/SOHC applications). The polymeric guides are eventually worn through, and if you ignore the noise, you'll eventually start grinding metal and then have a bigger problem. I think when the Mod was launched in the early 90's, it may have spec'd a 10w40, but it may have also used a roller chain rather than an NVH chain. They were all NVH chains by the time I got there. Gotta run, will try to check back.

super write up … thanks .. follow up question

as mentioned in an earlier post, I've a '97 F150 4.6 with 120k miles … I've been using Max Life (Valvoline if it matters) for the last 4 yrs .. changing twice a yr. ~ 3k mi changes

any recommendations greatly appreciated

and you mentioned street cars v. race cars … would you care to address a dual purpose car … specifically a '91 CRX Si with now 132k mi. it's an autocross and TT/PDX car … gets driven to and from events (autocross) ~ 250 mi round trip .. on average 25 times a yr …

towed to track events, 3 - 4 TT's and 2 - 3 PDX's per yr

oil change 3 - 4 times a yr and have used Amsoil 5w30 since purchased with 90k mi.

again, any recommendations greatly appreciated

thanks

In reply to 67King:

Thank you!!!

Bobzilla wrote: Don't cheap out on the filter, use some decent oil and change it. Soup.

And that's really all there is to it when you get down to it.

In reply to wbjones:

I'd probably run M1 0w40 in the CRX.

wbjones wrote: and you mentioned street cars v. race cars … would you care to address a dual purpose car … specifically a '91 CRX Si with now 132k mi. it's an autocross and TT/PDX car … gets driven to and from events (autocross) ~ 250 mi round trip .. on average 25 times a yr … towed to track events, 3 - 4 TT's and 2 - 3 PDX's per yr oil change 3 - 4 times a yr and have used Amsoil 10w30 since purchased with 90k mi.

For a car that is tracked, and I assume pushed hard, then I would look for a good race oil that has a healthy detergent pack. There are some out there that are designed to be changed every few hundred miles, and many of them have very, very low detergent packs. So something like 600ppm Ca. On the other end of the spectrum you have race oils that are designed to handle longer drain intervals and endurance races. Those will have closer to 2500ppm Ca. I also like race oils with some Group V (ester) base stock over those that have none, due to its superior film strength.

THat said, there are reasons that some manufacturers make very low detergent packages, but that's another discussion that doesn't really apply. There are caveats, too.

My obviously very highly subjective opinion is to look into the Millers CFS NT, or "Nanodrive" race oils. There is a 0w30 that would do very well for you. Other race oils I like that would work well with a street driven car are Motul 300V and Amsoil Dominator.

Now, you could go with lesser oils, but you'd have to change them a whole lot more often. You probably aren't going to get the oil hot enough from autocrossing it, but the time trials will absolutley get it hot. With lesser oils, you'd want fresh oil going into the event, and change it right after. To quantify things to help put it in perspective, any non-race oil will be primarily Group III base stocks. Their flash point is 190C (~375F). They won't get that hot, but the closer to that point they get, the more quickly they'll oxidize. Groups IV and V base stocks flash around 260-270C (~510F).

A good race oil should be able to handle 275 all day. And that is easier to get on the track than you realize. Last student I had had a 991. He was an exceptional driver, but his oil temps were around 260F. That is really pushing the limits of a non-race oil. Even if it is an A40 approved oil.

There are a great many oils I would stay away from for this application, but I won't mention specifics publicly. A good rule of thumb, though, is if you can find it on a shelf at a general parts store, you should stay away from it. You generally have to either mail order race oils, or get them from speed shops. Oil companies are really good at marketing, and personally I feel that lots of the branding is deceptive (e.g. the Castrol "Syntec" case mentioned above!). And having lunched an engine with only 500 miles on a bottom end rebuild and the oil branded a race oil, I'm extremely tentative (this was before I was in the business).

You or anyone else can email me at hking@performanceracingoils.com or call me at 865-200-4264 with questions. I'll elaborate more than is appropriate here, and give you some examples of the robustness of the Millers (i.e. it is expensive, but will lower your overall outlay due to the longevity).

On the truck, given your drain interval, I don't see any reason to change. Yeah, you'd get a little bit better protection, longer life, and fuel economy with a good synthetic (Gr III - the street stuff), but it doesn't sound like it would be worth it. If you do, you may want to put some in, and drain it after say maybe 500 miles or so, as it will start to clean up the sludge that accumulates with conventionals. Filter a bit more often. But if you change, and go with a higher quality synthetic (ref look for the OEM ratings listed), you should get 2-3 times the life out of it pretty easily. Those oils are designed to run 10,000-15,000 miles between drain intervals.

• Harry

thanks Harry

Javelin wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Don't cheap out on the filter, use some decent oil and change it. Soup.

And that's really all there is to it when you get down to it.

FWIW in the CRX I've been using either OEM (from an indy parts store… come from Japan oil filters) or Wix

on the F150 it's Ford Motorcraft … so I expect that they are OEM filters

Jav, Harry, Bob … anyone … see any problem in those choices ?

without running to a store to check the packaging, what class is the newly heavily marketed and hyped Pennzoil synthetic that comes from a natural gas stock opposed to traditional petroleum stock?

wbjones wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Don't cheap out on the filter, use some decent oil and change it. Soup.

And that's really all there is to it when you get down to it.

FWIW in the CRX I've been using either OEM (from an indy parts store… come from Japan oil filters) or Wix on the F150 it's Ford Motorcraft … so I expect that they are OEM filters Jav, Harry, Bob … anyone … see any problem in those choices ?

I don't see any issue with it. I use OEM Hyundai filters on the KIa/Hyundai, Delco on the truck and OEM Honda filters for the bike.

captdownshift wrote: without running to a store to check the packaging, what class is the newly heavily marketed and hyped Pennzoil synthetic that comes from a natural gas stock opposed to traditional petroleum stock?

It is a Group III. Sometimes called Group III+. Yields a higher VI than typical Group III, but for the nature of this discussion, it behaves like a III. Which is to say its heat range is on par with conventionals, moreso than race oils.

Like I said, though, as a base stock, Group III's make fine street oils (caveat is assuming the rest of the blend is of high quality and meets your required spec).