In reply to bobzilla
The piece I read had links to the various programs Some of which are well known. The federal and state. The $500 refer all bonus is repeatedly available.
I personally know that Tesla offers in inventory cars at a discount because I have checked the Tesla site out frequently.
If you are saying some of those links aren't factual I'll accept that rather than go searching myself. ( I don't live in California and couldn't take advantage anyway)
I would appreciate knowing exactly which are true and which aren't. So I don't fall for that again.
In reply to frenchyd :
California is not matching $7500 off. Some municipalities offer up to $5k off, they offer property tax incentives for charger installation up to $2500. The $5k in some locales is a rebate, in others a tax credit. Varies on counties, cities and what is available at that time.
Old_Town said:
Random question (as a non-EV owner that has not done any research) - If an EV runs out of juice on the road, is the only current solution to tow/flatbed to a charger or are there mobile charging units (AAA?) in development to boost you enough to get you to charger?
Flatbedding you to a charger is typically the best option even when jumper packs are available just because of the time investment. There are towing services that do have jumper "packs" that they'll connect them to as they transport them, but that's mostly so when they drop them off they have enough energy to move the car into proper position.
I think for steady-state charging them on the way for an extra mile or two to move, they have the same generators they have for welders. My destination charger running at 50% max capacity- 240v at 20 amps- would still be giving my Model 3 a mile every 8-12 minutes.
BAMF said:
I've been driving a 2013 Chevy Volt for 8 years. I contributed 115k of the 144k mills on the car.
I have done oil changes in the range extending engine about every 40k miles.
Something I never considered is how often are you supposed to change the oil in a hybrid system that uses the ICE as a range extender/backup. Do you rely solely on the computer to tell you? Do cars like that give you an hour meter for just the ICE? Interesting. Maybe not pertinent to an EV only thread though.
There's at least one dude here in Fort Worth Texas that does EV road rescue. He's got a Ram truck with a utility topper on the back. The truck is fully wrapped and says "Emergency charging" and such all over the truck. Assumedly the topper hides a very robust charger in the bed.
STM317
PowerDork
8/8/23 10:07 a.m.
GIRTHQUAKE said:
Old_Town said:
Random question (as a non-EV owner that has not done any research) - If an EV runs out of juice on the road, is the only current solution to tow/flatbed to a charger or are there mobile charging units (AAA?) in development to boost you enough to get you to charger?
Flatbedding you to a charger is typically the best option even when jumper packs are available just because of the time investment. There are towing services that do have jumper "packs" that they'll connect them to as they transport them, but that's mostly so when they drop them off they have enough energy to move the car into proper position.
I think for steady-state charging them on the way for an extra mile or two to move, they have the same generators they have for welders. My destination charger running at 50% max capacity- 240v at 20 amps- would still be giving my Model 3 a mile every 8-12 minutes.
In theory, couldn't they flat tow them and use the regen to charge a bit instead of a jump pack? Is it terrible for heat management to have constant regen for a handful of miles?
bobzilla said:
In reply to frenchyd :
California is not matching $7500 off. Some municipalities offer up to $5k off, they offer property tax incentives for charger installation up to $2500. The $5k in some locales is a rebate, in others a tax credit. Varies on counties, cities and what is available at that time.
Thank you .I just googled it . California is offering a $7500 clean car credit tax rebate. Max income of $300,000. For married couples $150,000 for single. What I read is some of those tax credits or rebates were dependent on income levels. A minimum income of $54,500 with a maximum of ? They said but I failed to write it down.
Others were location specific as you mentioned
If you are saying a tax rebate isn't a discount then you and I have a different opinion of the word discount.
I know Oregon has a similar mismosh of tax credits and rebates.
Minnesota offers a straight $2500 tax credit with a maximum income limit, but there is a limit of 14 million total for the state.
So it would take a unique combination of credits and rebates to get it that low.
When I went back to college after the Navy. I spent 3 days in the counselor's office and got a really significant amount of college credits. Typically they weren't in form of credits, but rather grants based on certain circumstances. Having a French Name got me three credits, service in the Military got me something ( in addition to the GI bill) , and service in Vietnam got me help from the VFW. And combat duty got me a decent grant from the Daytons, ( owners of Target). The Pillsbury company also provided a grant.
There were several small grants and allowances if I took specific courses. Chemistry and an English writing course given by a local Publisher. ( I really dug that). None of it was cash and all required application and copies of my DD214. It took a long while to get some of it but a lot was simply a sign off by the student counselor.
On top of that I got the GI bill and since I took evening classes I got my unemployment insurance.
All of that is to say there is often a lot money/ credits/ Help, if you qualify and jump through the hoops.
STM317 said:
In theory, couldn't they flat tow them and use the regen to charge a bit instead of a jump pack? Is it terrible for heat management to have constant regen for a handful of miles?
Hell yeah! Totally could, and I swear it's been done before.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
I know Tesla has a tow hook in the car. There is a special process to get it in place, hopefully spelled out in the owners manual.
wae
PowerDork
8/8/23 11:09 a.m.
GIRTHQUAKE said:
STM317 said:
In theory, couldn't they flat tow them and use the regen to charge a bit instead of a jump pack? Is it terrible for heat management to have constant regen for a handful of miles?
Hell yeah! Totally could, and I swear it's been done before.
I'm envisioning a sort of hydraulic wheel lift with powered rollers on it. Pull up behind the vehicle, deploy the stinger to lift the wheels off the ground, and then spin them to charge the battery. Don't even have to get out of the truck!
wae said:
GIRTHQUAKE said:
STM317 said:
In theory, couldn't they flat tow them and use the regen to charge a bit instead of a jump pack? Is it terrible for heat management to have constant regen for a handful of miles?
Hell yeah! Totally could, and I swear it's been done before.
I'm envisioning a sort of hydraulic wheel lift with powered rollers on it. Pull up behind the vehicle, deploy the stinger to lift the wheels off the ground, and then spin them to charge the battery. Don't even have to get out of the truck!
Even better if they play with elevations 
.
"Yeah it's all straight downhill from here. I'm cutting you off, just roll on down and you'll have like, 3 miles."
No Time
UltraDork
8/8/23 12:10 p.m.
In reply to frenchyd :
Tax credit is not a discount in the purchase price. The only time it gets applied to the principal is in a lease, where the finance company gets the credit and reduces capitalized cost to lower lease payments.
You still pay the higher price OTD, but get some back at tax time. Using the tax credit to show a lower purchase price is in the same as when Tesla was using fuel savings as a way to show lower prices on their website than the actual price you would end up paying (they've since changed it)
The other catch is that some of those rebates have wording the limits the credit to not exceed your tax burden, so if you only owe $6,000 you might only qualify for the $6,000 and not $7500.
Before you suggest it, if someone is responsible and takes the refund from the tax credit and applies it to the loan, they will reduce the principal, but their monthly payments will still be the same as before, so the credit doesn't really help their monthly budget.
Last point, actually a question. Is the larger refund you receive as a result of the tax credit for purchasing an EV taxable in the following year as income? Is it added to your net income for calculating tax bills?
In reply to No Time :
No. The tax credit is not taxable the following year.
If you earn enough to afford a new car, you don't get a $7500 Federal and a $7500 California rebate on a Model 3. I'm only getting the Federal $7500 and $2000 from California.
No Time said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Tax credit is not a discount in the purchase price. The only time it gets applied to the principal is in a lease, where the finance company gets the credit and reduces capitalized cost to lower lease payments.
You still pay the higher price OTD, but get some back at tax time. Using the tax credit to show a lower purchase price is in the same as when Tesla was using fuel savings as a way to show lower prices on their website than the actual price you would end up paying (they've since changed it)
The other catch is that some of those rebates have wording the limits the credit to not exceed your tax burden, so if you only owe $6,000 you might only qualify for the $6,000 and not $7500.
Before you suggest it, if someone is responsible and takes the refund from the tax credit and applies it to the loan, they will reduce the principal, but their monthly payments will still be the same as before, so the credit doesn't really help their monthly budget.
Last point, actually a question. Is the larger refund you receive as a result of the tax credit for purchasing an EV taxable in the following year as income? Is it added to your net income for calculating tax bills?
Here is a simple example . If I get A $7500 federal tax credit and the taxes I will pay that year are $7500 ( or more) I just saved? Earned? Got? $7500 more in my family budget. Whatever I do, if I use a refund of $7500 to reduce the cost of the car I can take the car loan and refinance it to lower the payments, pay it off sooner, or spend it on hookers and blow:-(
It's still to my benefit.
Our actual plans are more complex but I will receive a $7500 benefit from it.
If you aren't paying $7500 a year in federal income tax, are you sure you should be buying a new car?
Along those lines our Honda has some residual value. I'll need to wait until the Model 2 is actually available to determine what that actually is n order to figure out exactly what the return is. But if the program should be ending before delivery I can choose another car that is available. Then re-evaluate our position.
I do know for sure it will be an EV. In rough, crude numbers gas would need to drop to $1.55 to break even with the cost of electricity. Even lower If the efficiency of the EV in question is better than average.
That is without taking advantage of solar panels or other renewable resources of my own.
There is a path to getting all of the rebates Frenchyd mentioned in CA for an EV. But very, very few people would be eligible for all of the rebates that you would need to stack. There are maximum income restrictions, restrictions on the specific EV, you have to live within a specific set of zip codes (zip codes that have above a certain poverty rate and above a certain level of pollution) and you have to go through a lengthy process to scrap a documented ICE vehicle that fits specific criteria. You also have to be left handed and born on the third Tuesday of a month ending in "Y," but it is possible.
In reply to Boost_Crazy :
Thank you,
I believe I said exactly that in the second paragraph I wrote in my original statement.
Granted it was an extremely unlikely event. But the real truth is there can be some very affordable prices on EV's that is not available on ICE's.
Although to be fair•••
Recent slow sales has forced legacy auto companies and their dealers to drastic measures in price reductions.
Discounts that haven't been available for a number of years.
Dealers though will make you work for them, because they hate to seem easy.
So our local electricity provider is planning a 23% rate hike. Pushing our cost per kwh to almost 20 cents.
In reply to bobzilla :
Yeh, prices keep going up. Last month gas cost $3.49/9
this month it's up to $3.89/9.
84FSP
UberDork
8/9/23 9:59 a.m.
GIRTHQUAKE said:
STM317 said:
In theory, couldn't they flat tow them and use the regen to charge a bit instead of a jump pack? Is it terrible for heat management to have constant regen for a handful of miles?
Hell yeah! Totally could, and I swear it's been done before.
It has been done but is really bad for them as the car has no ability to control the charge rate or any of the critical thermal controls. It would void all warranties and they would know immediately as the vehicles are all linked to Tesla specifically sharing that vehiclea data back and forth.
frenchyd said:
In reply to bobzilla :
Yeh, prices keep going up. Last month gas cost $3.49/9
this month it's up to $3.89/9.
and it went back down this week. Whens the last time electricity costs went down?
SV reX
MegaDork
8/9/23 10:23 a.m.
In reply to bobzilla and frenchyd:
You are both getting very close to this being a personal bickering war. Easy Francis.
bobzilla said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to bobzilla :
Yeh, prices keep going up. Last month gas cost $3.49/9
this month it's up to $3.89/9.
and it went back down this week. Whens the last time electricity costs went down?
I actually looked that up out of curiosity.
Rates in SC went up by .3%. Some of them have dropped a fair amount. RI dropped 4%.
Most of them have gone up and some of them have jumped substantially.
https://www.energysage.com/local-data/electricity-cost/
Toyman! said:
bobzilla said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to bobzilla :
Yeh, prices keep going up. Last month gas cost $3.49/9
this month it's up to $3.89/9.
and it went back down this week. Whens the last time electricity costs went down?
I actually looked that up out of curiosity.
Rates in SC went up by .3%. Some of them have dropped a fair amount. RI dropped 4%.
Most of them have gone up and some of them have jumped substantially.
https://www.energysage.com/local-data/electricity-cost/
Dang, doesn't have Oklahoma on there. I don't know the exact rates, but I know all our utilities are up substantially the last 18 months.
I accidentally made a late payment on my electric bill a few months ago so they removed me from the Average Monthly Plan (it's the only utility that won't let me set up autopay to my cash back credit card vs my checking account). This month was $255, next month is projected to be $325.
Toyman! said:
bobzilla said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to bobzilla :
Yeh, prices keep going up. Last month gas cost $3.49/9
this month it's up to $3.89/9.
and it went back down this week. Whens the last time electricity costs went down?
I actually looked that up out of curiosity.
Rates in SC went up by .3%. Some of them have dropped a fair amount. RI dropped 4%.
Most of them have gone up and some of them have jumped substantially.
https://www.energysage.com/local-data/electricity-cost/
Thanks Toyman. We are on auto pay and I never see the bill. It's typically right around $100 a month this time of year. Pulling lake water for the lawn is our big expense but I do love seeing a lush green lawn. Neither neighbor has a sprinkler system and the difference is serious.
The house tends to stay cool without A/C. But temps don't get to near 90's very often when we close the windows and turn on the air.
iansane said:
BAMF said:
I've been driving a 2013 Chevy Volt for 8 years. I contributed 115k of the 144k mills on the car.
I have done oil changes in the range extending engine about every 40k miles.
Something I never considered is how often are you supposed to change the oil in a hybrid system that uses the ICE as a range extender/backup. Do you rely solely on the computer to tell you? Do cars like that give you an hour meter for just the ICE? Interesting. Maybe not pertinent to an EV only thread though.
I think that's a good question. Same thing with anti freeze. We are supposed to flush it every 2 years but is that mileage dependent or time specific?
