Tom1200 said:
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:
Mrs. Snowdoggie's boss is a multimillionaire and owns commercial property all over town. He drives an old PT Cruiser. Does he know something we don't?
I like this guy................note I have a six figure income so I can afford a $750-1000 car payment which works out to a 50-60K car.
I know 3 people with 7-8 figure incomes and most of them drive mundane cars on a daily basis. They all of 100-200K track cars but you'd never know they had money if you saw they're daily drivers.
It might actually be an age thing. This guy is about 70 years old and you should hear him rant and rave about what a waste it is to blow $20,000 on a new car. $20,000! Not $48,000. $20,000. Then he will go write a check to his A/C guy for $100,000 to put a new system in one of his warehouses and order plane tickets to take his wife on a trip to Europe. Maybe younger people are used to the high prices because they don't remember a time when you could buy a new car for $2,000. My first new car had a sticker price of $2,388. That isn't even a down payment today. It may be a matter of perspective.
z31maniac said:
bobzilla said:
Tom Suddard said:
One note on price--EVs are more expensive, but the days of $25,000 new cars are basically over. "The average price for a new vehicle was $48,808 in June" according to Kelly Blue Book.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-hit-48808-in-june/
While the AVERAGE may be that high, there are plenty of good vehicles in that range. Wife's Seltos was $24,600 and the Forte was $26500. Both are a helluva lot of car for the money.
EDIT: Cheapest Kia EV is $39k IF you can find a dealer with one to sell. Locally there are 3 but all over $42k. When you are talking about a 60% increase in price, there really needs to be something for that money ya know?
And I wonder how much you have to make to comfortably afford that. I know what we make vs our mortgage..........I already felt bad about buying a BRZ.
We paid the mortgage off a couple years back and paid cash for the two new. Wife took a pay cut last year so we are making well less than 6 figures combined. But we also live within our means, pay off the credit car every month and aren't trying to keep up with anyone. We live our lives.
Also the EV benefits are all over the map. If you can take advantage of the tax cuts and live in specific states of the US, you can chop $10K+ off the price of a new EV depending on model.
It's just so situational and specific.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:
z31maniac said:
bobzilla said:
Tom Suddard said:
One note on price--EVs are more expensive, but the days of $25,000 new cars are basically over. "The average price for a new vehicle was $48,808 in June" according to Kelly Blue Book.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-hit-48808-in-june/
While the AVERAGE may be that high, there are plenty of good vehicles in that range. Wife's Seltos was $24,600 and the Forte was $26500. Both are a helluva lot of car for the money.
EDIT: Cheapest Kia EV is $39k IF you can find a dealer with one to sell. Locally there are 3 but all over $42k. When you are talking about a 60% increase in price, there really needs to be something for that money ya know?
And I wonder how much you have to make to comfortably afford that. I know what we make vs our mortgage..........I already felt bad about buying a BRZ.
One of our houses is paid off and the other one we owe less than $10,000 on. All of our cars are paid off.
Yet I would rather be stuffing more money in the bank than adding a $1,000 a month car payment to the budget. The economy is scary right now and I don't feel comfortable being in that much debt.
Mrs. Snowdoggie's boss is a multimillionaire and owns commercial property all over town. He drives an old PT Cruiser. Does he know something we don't?
The economy continues to add, literally, hundreds of thousands of jobs per month, The only thing scary is the media trying to tell you things are bad.
I work for the worlds largest ERP cloud company, revenue/profit/etc increased by double-digits the past year. Nothing is wrong with the economy.
Tom1200 said:
The two hurdles for me when it comes to EVs are:
1. The price; note I'm cheaper than cheap, 25K is the my cutoff for any vehicle regardless of use.
2. The weight; I race a 1600lb car and a 780lb car, even my daily station wagon is only 3400lbs.
If Caterham can sell me a 1500lb EV 7 for 25K then I'm in..........otherwise companies can keep there overweight expensive cars.
EDIT..........I found the other thread very productive; it made me a forum deity.
I too fall in the cheaper than cheap category. How do you feel about the federal IRS requirement for your $25,000 budget limit?
You could then buy up to $32500 and still be at that $25,000 number? Higher in some states. $40,000 in California.
I assume we are talking about base price without taxes. license, transportation, options, and fees?
The Bolt is in that range, plus the proposed Model 2 or Q or whatever Tesla calls it.
So to get a bolt with the amenities of the forte it's going to be $36k, but all of them in that trim level are loaded to $39990. Even getting $7500 back we are still $6500 more with the limitations we have covered repeatedly.
the $25k bolt is about to where my 10 year old Rio is equipment-wise but without all the fun.
In reply to frenchyd :
Real cars only. No make believe please or what "may be coming".
In reply to z31maniac :
Other than the inflation.
frenchyd said:
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:
z31maniac said:
bobzilla said:
Tom Suddard said:
One note on price--EVs are more expensive, but the days of $25,000 new cars are basically over. "The average price for a new vehicle was $48,808 in June" according to Kelly Blue Book.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-hit-48808-in-june/
While the AVERAGE may be that high, there are plenty of good vehicles in that range. Wife's Seltos was $24,600 and the Forte was $26500. Both are a helluva lot of car for the money.
EDIT: Cheapest Kia EV is $39k IF you can find a dealer with one to sell. Locally there are 3 but all over $42k. When you are talking about a 60% increase in price, there really needs to be something for that money ya know?
And I wonder how much you have to make to comfortably afford that. I know what we make vs our mortgage..........I already felt bad about buying a BRZ.
One of our houses is paid off and the other one we owe less than $10,000 on. All of our cars are paid off.
Yet I would rather be stuffing more money in the bank than adding a $1,000 a month car payment to the budget. The economy is scary right now and I don't feel comfortable being in that much debt.
Mrs. Snowdoggie's boss is a multimillionaire and owns commercial property all over town. He drives an old PT Cruiser. Does he know something we don't?
Isn't that extremely situational?
Maybe when he bought that he was still a struggling entrepreneur. Likely he will keep it until it gets too expensive.
7 years ago I still drove a 20 year old truck, daily. Then I bought a new truck and now it's 7 years old. I intend to keep driving it until my dirt nap or it gets too expensive.
New cars aren't a luxury to a lot of people. They are just transportation
If $48,000 is the average price for that, that's not luxury. That's average.
He didn't even buy the PT Cruiser. His father gave it to him years ago as a gift. He still drives it today and he probably has already spent enough in repairs to buy a new one a couple of times over. I don't think he even worries about it.
I was really looking forward to the Mazda MX30 EV, but they already canceled it. I don't think they even sold it on my state yet.
aircooled said:
Tom Suddard said:
One note on price--EVs are more expensive, but the days of $25,000 new cars are basically over. "The average price for a new vehicle was $48,808 in June" according to Kelly Blue Book.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-hit-48808-in-june/
Average of what? Average of the price of all cars available? (which seems to be implied by the wording) Average of what people are paying for new cars? (which would be more useful information). It will make a huge difference.
E.g. if a car maker makes 2 cars, a $100,000 super car, and a $20,000 ecobox. The average price of their cars is: $60,000. If that car maker sells the ecobox 100 to 1 to the super car, the average price buyers are paying for a car from that manufacturer is: $20,792 !!
I believe it's the "Average Transaction Price". Because of the inherent upward bias in financial data, the "Median Transaction Price" would be more representative and probably noticeably lower. Unfortunately, it doesn't get reported that way because doing so wouldn't be good for business.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:
Tom Suddard said:
And this solves the Tesla grille problem:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-184-grill?srsltid=ASuE1wRNGGVgPLjm_gRWOdgoEYMWD7A3yVzZh-RmeMXqsOG1YiK3nNYq8NU
I never thought the Tesla grille was a problem. Why does it need one? Form follows function.
It actually reminds me a Corvair.
Granted that in most locations there would be a North American or European license plate over that fat lip front end, but I can't get over the resemblance to this.
This thread is already delving into the economy, retirement, income issues. Human nature will always be human nature.
Tom Suddard
Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
8/1/23 9:26 p.m.
Javelin said:
I was really looking forward to the Mazda MX30 EV, but they already canceled it. I don't think they even sold it on my state yet.
I lost track of that one. Did they ever sell any rotaries to consumers?
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
I resemble that remark.....I won't spend more than 25K on a road car at the moment.
Meanwhile I saw an add for a really clean Indy Lites race car. The ask was 50K, I actually calculated that if I cleaned out the garage I'd only need to spend 20K to make it happen.
Logical I am not.
So back to EVs:
A cheap commuter would likely work well for me but they aren't making one that I would find fun to drive.
I'd be OK with an electric tow vehicle but they are likely to be way more than I want to spend.
Also note Caterham has no plans to do the EV 7 they demonstrated at Goodwood.
Tom1200 said:
So back to EVs:
A cheap commuter would likely work well for me but they aren't making one that I would find fun to drive.
I'd be OK with an electric tow vehicle would be fine by me but they are likely to be way more than I want to spend.
Also note Caterham has no plans to do the EV 7 they demonstrated at Goodwood.
I have similar concerns about using one as a daily mostly because of my specific needs. On the other hand I'm more optimistic about the future and Caterham. They will figure it out, and when they do it'll be awesome!
When I recently bought the GR86 I thought it would probably be the last gas car I'd be buying.
My work truck is approaching 200,000 miles. Almost every day it's pulling a trailer. I fear, based on how its used today, (loads, driving distances, available charging, etc.) if I had to replace it, the numbers would point at another ICE.
I'm interested in watching Tom's life with the Lightning. I'd be more interested to see if it will still be active in the GRM stable 5 or 6 years from now since many of the buyers have to mortgage them that long.
I'm reading that this massive heat wave thru the South is having a negative effect on EV range. And, I'm interested in how safe old lighter cars will be if they tangle with these heavier battery cars.
I'm keeping an open mind.
In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :
This one?
I guess I just need to disregard saving for a comfortable retirement.
Nope.
