If I could find an MR2 Spyder nearby that would be the answer but the only ones in budget are in the southeast or West Coast.
If I could find an MR2 Spyder nearby that would be the answer but the only ones in budget are in the southeast or West Coast.
Foxbody Mustang!
Or if you want to go cheaper/newer the new edge v8 cars are still a steal, but a bit heavier.
Edit to ad: I started with a mk1 gti, still the most fun I've ever had in a car, and far easier to work on than RWD in my opinion. I wouldn't rule out FWD, you'll own other cars in the future.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Your parents are OK with an MR2 that weighs less than a similar model year Miata? I think they have some misconceptions that need to be confronted with data.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
They are!! I agree it is a weird anachronism but I'm not going to question them on it and risk losing another option. They don't know much about cars compared to us gear heads and they have strong preconceived notions of certain cars.
In reply to Shavarsh :
Not gonna lie, I hate the new edge. It's piggishly heavy and ugly to boot.
A foxbody does sound good though. I'm going to ask them. My gut instinct is anything bearing the words mustang will be nixed but I'll see.
How was the gti at teaching you proper driving/car control/performance driving?
All wheel drive cars can handle really well, but they require a different driving technique. The AWD system is important too. You want something that is able to send a good chunk of power rearward. Most manual transmission cars can do this, and some autos. But many autos are really FWD with a power take off that can send a little power to the rear when needed, they are not great for sporting intentions. There also seems to be a minimum power/max grip to make them "fun." The more grip you have, the more power you need to rotate the car. You basically drive them like FWD on corner entry, and RWD on corner exit, except you can put more power down on corner exit. Trail brake or left foot brake to get the tail to come around, then on the power to keep it out there. They respond well to aggressive driving, which I find to be a lot of fun. They are more fun than FWD and more forgiving than RWD. If you get into trouble, just stand on the gas and ride it out. Drive it correctly, you get the benefits of both. Drive it wrong, you get the drawbacks of both.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
You need to present your folks with data.
Miatas have a better than average safety rating.
When my son wanted something sporty that is what we got him. Miatas are built like tanks.
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
By the way I love your builds! Big fan of the x1/9.
I did some more research and while I couldn't find a definite authoritative source it looks like you're right about the Impreza torque split. Thanks!
I'm curious about why they wouldn't be as fun?
In terms of e36s, I kind of don't know what to look for. Obviously I am looking for cars with minimal rust that are said to be functional but when you say beat to oblivion, what kind of issues would I been looking at/for?
Manual is300s are ridiculously rare but I have found one.
Honestly, at the moment I'm not worried about carrying stuff and friends, and I'm not terribly worried about reliability from a necessity perspective - I'm maybe 30 minutes from my job by bus so I have options if the car is down..the bigger thing to me is that it won't blow up on an autox event.
Hednt even considered the civic si, I'll take a look on marketplace! Thanks!
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Haha the new edge is ugly, I'll give you that.
The gti was perfect. I could drive into a corner, lift off, 4 wheel slide and power out to get the car straight again. The limits were well within reach. I think that is why I had so much fun with it. Getting to the limits of the rwd v8 cars I've owned since then is much more difficult for a sane person.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
You seem to have a number of opinions on what *should* make a car good or bad based on specs, but how many of those have you driven to actually know what it feels like first hand? Seems to me like that would be the best place to start.
In reply to Shavarsh :
Honestly sounds like fun. THe Mk1 GTI's are ridiculously cool - definitely a lusty car for me.
In terms of what you said about limits - that's why I'm a big believer in slow car fast.
In reply to Driven5 :
That is a very fair criticism. My thinking is an extrapolation cars that I have driven. I have tended to like smaller, lighter cars and RWD cars. For example I've been mostly driving my mom's soul crushing, hybrid, CVT SUV. When I have driven lighter cars such as a friend's honda fit I liked it a lot more. Similarly, when I've driven a friend's 350z I enjoyed it more than my mom's car, but I did feel the weight compared to the fit. So I am extrapolating my (admittedly minimal) experience to build a set of criteria for what I like.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Given your comments I'd go with a light car regardless of drive train layout.
I've raced a 1600lb car for the last 35 years and enjoy driving something light versus a heavier but faster car. I also by virtue of instructing at Porsche Club events get to drive a lot of fast cars.
A Civic or Fit would be a very fun car.
In reply to Tom1200 :
So after talking to them again, apparently they did some research in the meantime and any "2 seater sports car" is out. I'm gonna start looking for fits - I really enjoyed one when I drove it, and they're about 2500 lbs?
Which generation of civic? I know earlier gens like the 90s are appreciating but I'm having a hard time finding later ones for cheap as well? I'm going to go as light as I can get my parents to agree.
I have found also a 500 abarth in my price range and nearby. Thoughts on them? IIRC they're also around 2500 lbs.
Evanuel9 said:In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
That looks like a good time!!
Have you noticed the civic causing any bad habits or affecting your skill with rwd?
I think it's helped my skill.
the modifications are very minimal, since drive it in street class autocross, can't even change the springs. It's only a 1.8 not an SI, so I'm down about 60 hp. Still super fun to drive.
Here's a lap from a track sprint this fall. I've done one track day with it, and on three year old used tires, it would still hang with the Miatas in the turns. I really love this car.
In reply to RaabTheSaab :
Well that's just wrong. Having the same wheels handle both acceleration and steering is fundamentally worse than RWD
In reply to Boost_Crazy :
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of comprehensive breakdown about awd I was hoping might appear. Very appreciated!
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
That looks like a lot of fun. Surprised to hear you can keep up with miatas!
BRZ/FRS is a hard top Miata in many ways.
E36, 328i for when you inevitably want boost, M3 if you have the budget. 318i leaves more cash for dates and life.
128i, N52 combo is loved by many. 135i will cost a lot (lot) more to maintain and insure. Or, just go any e46. Actually, any BMW in your budget will be good for learning car control, new Supra included
Have them look at newer Miata crash test ratings like the RF, it's a 5 star car. Maybe they will help you afford the difference in cost to buy a newer safer one? "If I buy an old car, it won't be reliable! It will cost me more money to keep on the road, and it will be less safe! I love you mom!".
Evanuel9 said:In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
That looks like a lot of fun. Surprised to hear you can keep up with miatas!
An SI would turn just as well if not better, and be a lot faster in the stretch. I bought this because I couldn't find an unmodified SI with reasonable mileage and a clean title in my budget. Long term plan is to replace it with a 9th gen SI, the last generation with a naturally aspirated port injected engine.
BTW, I had a WRX wagon, my dream car, and got rid of as fast as possible. Lots of annoying stuff, and then I found out that it would spin a bearing from oil starvation if you try to track it. Look up the GRM project WRX wagon, that's what killed it. Supposedly, you can replace the oil pan and pickup, but I didn't want to re-engineer the car. Handled poorly too, very softly sprung.
Civics can be fast, but you'll never do donuts. Donuts are good. So is sliding around a cone. RWD all the way, then when you can choose your own car, you'll have better skill transfer to that Miata you want.
Young people wanting Miatas. Never thought I'd see the day.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
I am not an expert on Civics so I will wait for one of the Honda guys to answer.
In reply to mr2peak :
I like the brx and frs but they're out of my price range.
In terms of e36s, the 318i is more attractive to me because it's lighter, but coupes seem impossible to find. Can't afford an m3. Have found a couple 328s
I did actually find a stick 128i in my price range which feels like a bit of a unicorn. I didn't realize they're 3300 lbs!! Heavier than an is300, e36 and e46 coupes and sedans, etc etc. I am astounded. Still might be worth looking at.
I tried that latter strategy - they're pitching in some but the budget is basically what I can afford.
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
I actually came across an 8th gen SI for 4.5. Wondering how they compare to the RSX?
Surprised to hear that about the WRX!
In reply to mr2peak :
I like the ability to do donuts/oversteer but if I can't find something that handles well or is fun to drive - i'm willing to forgo RWD. Hence the question of is more weight worth is for RWD
I love the miatas!! One of my favorite car (though I prefer MR2s)
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