Weird Ideas for Challenge Cars - Dodge Stratus? Minivans?

Reading about the Challenge here has me cruising Craigslist for cheap cars again.

Why are there so many cheap Dodge Stratus's and Plymouth Whateverthebadgengineeredequivalentis out there. Running ones for $300?

And what's the deal with all the cheap V6 Minivans? Gas Prices? Almost running Mercury Minivans for $100. Running Chrysler/Dodge products for $250? Can you make these things handle. Maybe I could take one to the Challenge and sleep in the damned thing and save enough money on hotel bills to pay for my gas.

After a transmission failure in my first car, I almost ended up with our old minivan - '95 Dodge Caravan Sport Wagon.

It was short wheelbase, but had the 3.3... A real burnout machine.

When I thought I was going to end up with it, I started looking at the aftermarket because I couldn't stand to leave well enough alone at that age (not that things have changed all that much now...). There were springs/struts/swaybars. Its a common bolt pattern, so wheels wouldn't be an issue. A challenge van (a real van, not a pile of awesomeness posing as a van like the Batvan) would be extremely cool in my eyes.

Answer to part one: Because they suck. Very cheaply made, inconsistent reliability, and not much in the way of performance prospects (Neons excepeted). I'm talking about the "cab forward" era cars, the ones built in the mid-to late 90s.

Answer to part two: The mid-80s to early 90s Mopar vehicles (LeBaron, Omni/Horizon, Caravan/Voyager/Town & Country, etc.) came in turbocharged versions and were built like Legos. Engine, transmission, and component swaps are common and easy for these. Not sure about making a Mopar minivan handle (high center of gravity FTL), but you can make a pretty nasty quarter-mile sleeper out of one. The automatic transmissions in these cars are very unreliable (My dad had a 95 Grand Caravan when I was about 10. It blew two slushboxes before we got rid of it). The manuals should be stout enough to handle some power. I have a volume of Sport Compact Car about a Dodge Omni set up for drag racing. A lot of that article's content can be applied to a turbo Mopar minivan build.

Another route you could explore is the Ford Aerovan. These were RWD and had pickup truck six-cylinders in them, and V-8's have been swapped into them. My friend had one of these. It took him three years of beating the everloving E36 M3 out of it before it died. The expression on passerbys' faces was priceless when my pal did burnouts in this van.

Here's a couple of videos to inspire you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rmj1zY1itA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RifBFGQoTes

haha, I love the announcer in the first one. He can't stop laughing as he says the "grocery getter's" time

I just have this urge to go back to the Challenge again. I don't have the money to do it. There's no way I should be doing it. It's just a 'Blues Brothers on a Mission from God sort of thing'. A Pilgrimage back to Gainesville. I'm going to have to go with something weirder than the Swift this time. A minivan might be it. Sleep in the damned thing to cut expenses. What year Chrysler products would take a Turbo four swap?

Hmm, the Stratus did pretty good against the Honda's in NATCC.....

300hp from a DOHC 2.0L NA isn't bad. Granted the $100K sequential transmission helps keep it in the power range.

In the cloud car cousins (Plymouth Breeze, Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Cirrus) had 2.0L and 2.4L Chrysler 4-cylinder engines along with the Mitusbishi 2.7L V6 (based on the SOHC 3.0L in the previous generation Chryslers and the 3.8L DOHC used in the Mitsubishi trucks along with the 3.0L DOHC twin-turbo used in the Stealth/3000GT and the MiVec V6 in the latest Eclipse). The 2.0L is a pretty standard piece lifted from the Neon with a different intake manifold to help with low end power and packaging. The 2.4L DOHC motors used were based on the Neon 2.0L SOHC but the block was made by the truck side of Chrysler so it is stronger and a little different in some areas.

Rods and pistons from the older 2.5L SOHC turbo engine can be fitted to the 2.4 to make the bottom end stronger when building a SRT-4 wannabe.

4-speed automatics are teh suxxorz, they are based on the A-604 used in all of the Chryslers of the time. Not very strong, can be as reliable as teh day is long or constantly failing. 5-speeds were available on some of the cars, but are very rare and the boxes were sourced from the Neons.

Front suspension is double wishbone with the outer ball joint nearly centered over the front wheels (seriously, look in the front fender wells of one). This makes stuffing wider wheels/tires under the car much harder than it should. Not impossible, just difficult as the offset gets wacky in a hurry. Rear suspension is multi-link like the Neons and seems to work well.

The larger intrepid, etc are best to be left alone. No manuals, all electronic automatics, some nice engines, no aftermarket or parts bin swappage.

The Dodge Avenger is based on the Mitsubishi Eclipse chassis and could be considered the last of the DSM era. An AWD DSM drivetrain swapped into an Avenger body could be a lot of fun since no one expects any performance from it.

As to the minivans, I really don't know why they are so plentiful unless it is a case of people just feel they've used them up and need to send them on their way.

Doggie, checkout http://www.turbominivan.com/ for info on the turbo minivans. I believe if you've got a van available with a 4-cylinder then you can swap in or build it up as a turbo. You might have to use megasquirt to get it running as swapping harnesses could lead to much more drinking than actual work being accomplished.

I know up to at least 1992, the vans used the SOHC 2.2/2.5 engines. Sometime after that some were available with the 2.4L DOHC but I'm not sure when that was or how many were even made.

If it has a 4 cylinder (1992 or older) the wiring from a turbo dodge of the same year (or at least close) will work. (85, 86-88. 89-90 or 91-92 I believe are the seperations). You should be able to find a van thats turbo already for way cheaper than doing a swap though. 5 speed stuff is really hard to find. about a year ago I saw like 20 5 speed vans in the junkyard within a few months, none since then though.

OK, if you don't want to build up an old mini-van into a racer, how about a "grassroots" transporter? These car were part of a Targa Newfoundland team. A vintage-racing pal of mine was the navigator in the Healey.

The Dodge Avenger / Mitsu GSX drivetrain swap has been done on an avenger...seems that unlike the neon powered Eclipses..they share the exact same floorplan as the mitsubishi turbo cars, so its' essentially a bolt in setup....

There was a turbo minivan in the $1500 Challenge.

They rust out heavily, the 3 liters smoke valve guides because they're Mitsubishi, and nobody bothers to fix them. I had one that was so bad that it needed plugs every couple months or the goo on them would glaze over and turn conductive and shut the van off every time it got warmed up.

The 3.3l is a decent engine if it's had the rocker shaft problem fixed, but the weak link there is the transmission. If you drive a lot in the city in OD or never check the fluid level, the 4 speed tends to die. They like to leak from the front pump gasket.

Snowdoggie wrote: I just have this urge to go back to the Challenge again. I don't have the money to do it. There's no way I should be doing it. It's just a 'Blues Brothers on a Mission from God sort of thing'. A Pilgrimage back to Gainesville. I'm going to have to go with something weirder than the Swift this time. A minivan might be it. Sleep in the damned thing to cut expenses. What year Chrysler products would take a Turbo four swap?

Well, then you'll HAVE to have a 1974 Dodge Monaco Sedan painted black & white to resemble a recycled former police car.

"It's got a cop motor, a four hundred and forty cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks, it was a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas," - Elwood Blues.

noisycricket wrote: There was a turbo minivan in the $1500 Challenge.

It's that where Team Mini Me got their name? (along with the turbo Omni)

The turbo van won the first challenge, if I remember correctly (I was only 7).

I think that the van got 2nd, and the clown won in a cosworth powered MG

Way back, my parents purchased a 1990 Caravan SE with the V6, new. It turned out to be quite the turd. Whenever the van was off, the tachometer would normally hover around 1k. However, everytime the tach needle was planted at zero, the van wouldn't start. I can't recall how many (numerous) occasions that occured. Throughout it's life, before it was traded at 70k, it received two transmission replacements and two ECU replacements.

Turbo dodges are other such things are certainly not the best quality cars in the worlld, thats for sure. Cheap and easy to make fast are the main good things.

Tommy Suddard wrote: The turbo van won the first challenge, if I remember correctly (I was only 7).

I thought Mini Me always won 2nd

I think you should try using an old Cadillac Brougham or somethin. Strip it out, put in a 350 or something with more horsepower, 5-speed, and slam it. It'd be like a touring car/NASCAR combination. It'd be awesome, especially with sidepipes.

There's an 89 V6 for sale right down the street from me. The price keeps dropping. Now it's $500 or best offer. What can I do with it? Swap with a turbo 4? Build up the V6?

Could the parts for a 5 speed swap be found?

astro + v8 + drop/swaybars/wheels/tires = winner over any chrysler POS FWD minivan including turbo ones.

i've gone through enough FWD chrysler trannies in caravans and voyagers to hate them for life.

Snowdoggie wrote: There's an 89 V6 for sale right down the street from me. The price keeps dropping. Now it's $500 or best offer. What can I do with it? Swap with a turbo 4? Build up the V6? Could the parts for a 5 speed swap be found?

I still can't sell a '90 for $500 runs and drives.

Some solid advice, however be aware there was a towing package which gave heavy duty suspension and larger lug patterns. But those make excellent work "trucks."

A important feature to look for was a option called a "convert-a-bed" It was a middle seat with an extra cushion which folds out to make the entire back a bed.

The common bolt pattern is 5x100. Struts from daytona's can be bolted to the front dropping it a few inches. The rear is a tube (beam) axle on leaf springs, lowering blocks can be fabbed easily. Stripped weigh about 3000 lbs without any real cutting. Rear disks have also been adapted. Think of it as a k-car with a few bigger pieces.

If your starting from scratch power train wise, I wouldn't worry too much. The 4 speed auto is weak sauce, but somewhat cool when it works. the 3 speed auto is stronger and can be built quite sturdy. The 5 speed transmission has a bell housing for the 2.5 (adaped to the 2.4) and the 3.0 but not the 3.3.

My "hot rod" I have been screwing around with for a while started as a 89 2.5 turbo with a 3 speed auto. It is now an intercooled 2.5 16v 5 speed that I'm finishing up the build on.

[IMG] [/IMG]

.. Needs a few loose ends tied up, but at least now its running.

The v-6 can be swapped for a 4 banger easily. There are 3 motor mounts (possibly a 4th strut on tranny and k-frame but can be omitted with solid mounts). The mount points are all the same for the motors, the mounts are the only thing that differ. A built 2.4 turbo (think srt-4) and transmission could and have been swapped. Or a 2.5 turbo etc.

5 speed swaps aren't that bad. (I just finished one) If original parts can not be found, parts from daytona/shadow/spirits etc can be used. They are cable shift, cable clutch tran's and the shfiter and clutch pedal/bolt can be robbed from aforementioned cars. The srt-4 tranny is hyd clutch, but a master cyl and pedal wouldn't be that difficult to fab.

Overall, it could be very fun, but I doubt will ever be that competitive. I don't think you will get it much under 3000 lbs. I could not have a honest sub 2k in my van (scary huh) after the engine rebuild, otherwise, it would make it down for a challenge!

Also, thinking of twin engine vehicles, this would be a rather easy one to do space wise. re-use the front k-member suspension and engine in rear, have dual turbo 4 bangers and still have some room in the middle.

I've been dreaming of a new build, even before this if finished; I want a buick roadmaster (with awesome twin sun roof) with a built lt1, side-pipes and a t-56..

patgizz wrote: astro + v8 + drop/swaybars/wheels/tires = winner over any chrysler POS FWD minivan including turbo ones. i've gone through enough FWD chrysler trannies in caravans and voyagers to hate them for life.

I've done far too many tranny swaps. The a-604 is not reliable. At all. and worked over v-8 vs turbo 4 banger. it is apples and oranges but the v-8 wins.

SVreX wrote:

Tommy Suddard wrote: The turbo van won the first challenge, if I remember correctly (I was only 7).

I thought Mini Me always won 2nd

Ouch. You just motivated me to get back to work in the garage.