In reply to codrus:
Family commitments have kept me away from the track....I can relate!
In reply to codrus:
Family commitments have kept me away from the track....I can relate!
Legal should be OK if you run under a SCCA sanction. I too have wondered about buying land for RX. The big factor for me ends up being land maintenance. The best site we run on has probably 10 hours of tractor time between events.
Still thinking about it though.
Spoolpigeon wrote:Jerry wrote: In reply to Knurled: Western OH and Cincinnati at Wilmington Air Park.Ahhhhhh no wonder it was so packed. That was the Test-n-tune for the Match Tour there next weekend. Plus it was out on the big pad, and that lot is well worth drive for. We had several local guys up there saturday to get a feel for the concrete since all of our lots are asphalt.
I looked up next weekend's event: "Registration Fee $95.
After April 7, 2014 12pm CDT all entries must be faxed or scanned to the National office. A non-refundable fee of $138.00 is due for entries received after 12pm CDT."
4 runs for $95 on Saturday. Not sure what the deal is for Sunday.
Ian F wrote: Unfortunately, I fear for our local scene right now. We only have one, rather limited lot left to run on which in an old runway, so as you can imagine, every course is a variation of "slalom-turnaround-slalom". Our course designers have been creative, but there's only so much they can do.
I chair the autocross program of a local club a little south of Philly Region (and I am a PR member, though I may switch to SJR).
We run our autocross program on a lot that is 130 feet wide by not quite 300 feet long. With bad paving in the middle. It sucks. PR wouldn't even consider it large enough to grid on. My primary self-assigned task as chair has been to locate a bigger venue. It is VERY difficult in this area.
[edit] Oh, and the parking lot islands are not to be blamed on landscape architects. They are to be blamed on stormwater management regulations that limit impervious area and require runoff be treated for quality (via filtering through natural and man-made materials) as well as quantity (via lots of collection areas). That leads to a lot of small islands scattered all over the place.
Wow. The club I organize for always gives at least 6 runs to all the participants. If you come to a Test & Tune, it's usually 12.
Hopefully more regions can purchase their own sites so we're not at the mercy of upper management pulling the plug on sites at any time.
4 1 minute runs for the day is rather normal for my SCCA region.
I have to have this conversation all the time. Autocross is not about seat time! When you first start, all you want to drive as much as possible, but eventually you realize the truth. Autocross is a game, and part of the rules of that game is three runs. 10 autocrosses with 9 runs each is the same seat time as 30 autocrosses of 3 runs each, but the latter is three times as much autocross. Anymore, after 3-4 runs, it just starts to feel wasteful. Wasteful of tires, of additional time I'll have to work, and to top it all off, you don't even get better. You might post a better time, but you aren't getting better at being fastest in three runs.
Sky_Render wrote: Wow. The club I organize for always gives *at least* 6 runs to all the participants. If you come to a Test & Tune, it's usually 12.
Dare I ask what club this is?
Not all runs are equal. A run at Fedex Field is way way way faster and more fun than a run at Harry Grove for example. Not to mention much more competitive.
There is a reason WDCR has attendance in the 175-300 range and other area clubs have around 50 people.
When I finally get a car to do autocross with again, I definitely want to go to some WDCR events.
Mr_Clutch42 wrote: Hopefully more regions can purchase their own sites so we're not at the mercy of upper management pulling the plug on sites at any time.
For autox, the difficulty with purchasing a site is paying to pave it. I'm told that the cost to pave a 10 acre site is well over a million dollars.
That's not such a big deal for rally-X, obviously. :)
No thanks. I have no desire to spend an entire day away from my family, roasting in the sun, having to pay for the event, then being told I have to work too, to get, at most, a few minutes of seat time. It's just not that fun. I'd rather spend less time away from the family to get hours of seat time at the track, which also is alot more fun.
I heart autocross, seeing my buds etc. But, given the cost of seat time and what I get to do with it I have moved toward hillclimbs and will be adding track days/time trials soon. If I don't pop a motor at a hillclimb (like I did at the Dragon) I can easily get 12-16 runs over two days at much higher speeds. Track days around here are typically 3-4 20 minute sessions per day. Then there's LeMons, typically 4 hours in the saddle per weekend.
All these are not only more seat time than the average AX but are at much higher speeds, which is what my adrenal glands want.
Now, if time/$ permit I would like to get a rallycross beater. That would take me back to my dirt bike roots. 
The other thing that the people harping about seat time always leave out is that the competitive level is dramatically lower in their other disciplines. It is essentially nil in track days, and if you lump in time trials, look how small those classes are, and it's even worse in road racing. The fact remains, autocross has a lower barrier to entry (cost) that allows a wide and varied cross-section of people to participate. This means that the competition is usually quite intense, and you can get decent class sizes (my regional E Street is pulling 7-10 cars per event). Not many SCCA Club races have 10 cars per class.
I'm not saying that you guys are wrong that you don't want to autocross. That's fine, I don't want to play basketball for example, but autocross just isn't about seat time.
Lastly, if you're "wasting a whole" at an autocross, you're either doing it wrong or don't like talking to people, or it just isn't for you. As much as the competitive aspect, I enjoy being able to go to a place where I reliably find ~100 people who like cars and like making them go faster with very few flat-bill bros and hellaflush types to wade through.
There's 6 to 7 guys in our time trial class, plus upwards to 40-50 TT'ers competing. Maybe not in your NASA region, but most of the time that's an average amount.
Competition is great. Seat time is greater. Wouldn't you prefer to compete for several hours instead of several minutes?
Different strokes for different folks.
Some guys are addicted to the competitive nature of autocross, and the extremely technical courses. Some of these folks also like autocross because there is very little chance of damage to car or driver. It's almost like an autocross is a big math problem that needs to be dissected to solve properly.
Some guys are addicted to raw speed and risk, and find autocross just too slow and "safe" to get the adrenal glands pumping. These guys gravitate more towards track days, hill climbs, road racing, etc.
Some guys would rather head to a drift event, some would rather do roundy round dirt track racing.
It's all fun, it's all motorsport, and in the public eye, we are all the same. We can also all learn from those that choose different disciplines. I may not want to partake in an autocross every week, but it sure can be fun. Same goes for drift, track days, etc.
As my buddy says----- 31 flavors.....I like em all! ( of course he wasn't talking about cars.....)
Let me add the last one:
Some guys want to drive for more than three minutes in a day.
LainfordExpress wrote: Lastly, if you're "wasting a whole" at an autocross, you're either doing it wrong or don't like talking to people, or it just isn't for you. As much as the competitive aspect, I enjoy being able to go to a place where I reliably find ~100 people who like cars and like making them go faster with very few flat-bill bros and hellaflush types to wade through.
This. Yes this. I didn't even race at all, only photographed all day (didn't even bring my helmet). But enjoyed the watching, and talked to plenty of people. But I'm kind of a talk-to-anyone kind of guy at heart.
But give me the choice of this 3 run/8hrs, or 8-12 runs/8hrs at a smaller rallycross, and I'm getting dirty every time.
I can autocross 15 minutes from my house. I am 2 hours from NJMP and farther from anywhere else. 'Nuff said. Would I like to get into track days and such? Sure.
But count me in the camp that enjoys every minute of the autocross day, not just the half dozen or so when I'm actually driving.
When I go to an autocross, I'm one of the first to get there and among the last to leave. It's the old stage-crew geek in me. If there's equipment to be set up or taken down, I just have to be a part of it.
LainfordExpress wrote: I have to have this conversation all the time. Autocross is not about seat time! When you first start, all you want to drive as much as possible, but eventually you realize the truth. Autocross is a game, and part of the rules of that game is three runs. 10 autocrosses with 9 runs each is the same seat time as 30 autocrosses of 3 runs each, but the latter is three times as much autocross. Anymore, after 3-4 runs, it just starts to feel wasteful. Wasteful of tires, of additional time I'll have to work, and to top it all off, you don't even get better. You might post a better time, but you aren't getting better at being fastest in three runs.
It’s a game that stacks the deck in favor of the old guard. How are you supposed to get better if you are not allowed to get seat time? I did a few, and I had fun. I had more runs in the passenger seat of strangers cars then I did in my Miata. But I want to drive, not watch other people drive. I want to race the clock and do better each time, especially when starting out. I would love to try rallycross, but I don’t own a car that I would subject to that punishment and no room for extra cars.
You'll need to log in to post.
