What a time for enthusiasts

Just look at the list of cars under or about 40k:

Ford Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS, Fusion Sport, Mustangs with independent rear suspension and either a turbo 4 or V8

Nissan 370z

Cadillac ATS (really!)

Honda Civic Si and Type R

Chevrolet Camaro (aka: Crammit)

Volkswagen GTI and Golf R

Subaru WRX and BRZ

The Toyota 86

The best Miata ever

and more I'm sure I'm missing.

We're currently spoiled for choice right now, aren't we? I swore off project cars to save some cash for a new daily driver that's a bit more refined and better on gasoline than the Forester XT. I mostly know what I want, but some of the options out there are making me reconsider my choice.

$40k is still an absurd amount of money in my mind.

Woody wrote: $40k is still an absurd amount of money in my mind.

+1

According to the internet:

• average US Salary =~$55k

• average US Car price =~$33k

$40k is more than most people can (should) reasonably afford. Hence why there are so many buyers with 72 month loans and continually rolling over negative equity. Difficult for the average consumer to pay off a car in the first place much less even begin to comprehend a cash purchase.

stroker wrote:

Woody wrote: $40k is still an absurd amount of money in my mind.

+1

+2

Datsun310Guy wrote:

stroker wrote:

Woody wrote: $40k is still an absurd amount of money in my mind.

+1

+2

+10

I don't understand how anyone can afford a $20k car much less a 40K-50K+

Dr Ribs Revere wrote: According to the internet: - average US Salary =~$55k - average US Car price =~$33k $40k is more than most people can (should) reasonably afford. Hence why there are so many buyers with 72 month loans and continually rolling over negative equity. Difficult for the average consumer to pay off a car in the first place much less even begin to comprehend a cash purchase.

This is one of those REALLY misleading "correlation is not causation" sort of things. The average US salary includes every bartender who makes $700 bucks in tips and reports his 2.75/hr wage. It includes every person who makes $180k but lives in NYC and has no car. The average car buyer includes Hertz, who buy 20k units of "average" priced cars like you and I buy coffee. It includes every taxi company, every rental fleet, every corporate fleet and the millions and millions of people who make more than average coin. And probably a few million who shouldn't have got the 144 month loan. But one does not equal the other.

The average new car buyer != the average salaried American.

In reply to Dr Ribs Revere:

Agreed. I don't understand how people can be comfortable with that amount of debt.

I know a guy who is buying a brand new Focus RS. I have a fairly good idea of his income. It amazes me how he got a loan for the car...

I gotta say that the Crammit nickname for the Camaro seems kind of dumb.

pres589 wrote: I gotta say that the Crammit nickname for the Camaro seems kind of dumb.

I think I agree with you wholeheartedly on that.

Dr Ribs Revere wrote: According to the internet: - average US Salary =~$55k - average US Car price =~$33k

While I agree the avg salary person is not necessarily the average new car buyer, it may not be as far off as someone might think.

Also, what is 55k after taxes? Probably close to 33k.

In reply to Robbie:

After taxes, Obamacare or similar,and retirement saving you mean? Probably closer to 30k

Huckleberry wrote:

pres589 wrote: I gotta say that the Crammit nickname for the Camaro seems kind of dumb.

I think I agree with you wholeheartedly on that.

If you didn't see the thread that inspired the name, then I can see how it would seem dumb.

However, if you did see that thread and come to any conclusion other than "that's the absolute best nickname ever in the world" then you are lacking a certain quality that constitutes your humanity.

So, 17.5m new cars per year. 20% are fleet sales. So say 15m new cars to people each year for round numbers.

New car every 5? Years? That's 75m. About 200m workers in America? So one out of three is a new car purchaser? Probably more of those 1/3 come from above 55k than below, but still not too far off.

Other interesting info:

• 1/3 of personal new cars are leased
• average new car loan amount is just under 30k
• average new car loan term is 67 months

I wouldn't pay $40K for a car. But I did notice new MINI Clubman starts at $24K, which seems like a real bargain.

In reply to Nick (Bo) Comstock:

If those are the only two choices, I am most certainly lacking a certain quality that constitutes humanity.

I make above the national mean of 55k, but I would not spend anything over 20K on a new car.. for that matter, I would not buy a new car anyway. There is a reason I have -no- debt what so ever and I like it that way

According to NADA (link) the median new car costs $33K, and the median new car buyer has an income of $80K (as opposed to median US income which is more like $50K). If you assume the downpayment and tax/tags/license are about the same and he's financing the car over 5 years at 4.5%, that's $615/month out of gross monthly income of $6600.

Brett did say "under or about" $40k. I test drove a new mustang v6 6mt and it was a great car at $25k. The fiesta st is widely available used for $15k. We have such amazing choices available and so many people want to complain about the rear visibility.

In reply to Huckleberry:

These truths are self evident

I can build one hell of a car for 20k, so two for forty. Berkley new car purchases imho.

It would be awesome if people only bought used cars. The manufacturers would go out of business and in 50 years the US would look like Cuba.

pres589 wrote: I gotta say that the Crammit nickname for the Camaro seems kind of dumb.

Origins of Crammit.

There's nothing wrong with debt if you can handle it. I bought a used 911 for a good amount of money but I can easily handle the payment and I love every minute of looking at it and driving it. To deprive yourself of something you enjoy and can pay for so you can claim no debt or not buying a new car doesn't make any sense to me.

If I'm dropping 40k on a car it's going to be an LS3 powered clownshoe.