What a time for enthusiasts

Brett_Murphy wrote: Let's change direction a bit: What cars, available new, right now, have your attention, either as a new purchase of a used purchase a few years down the road?

I'm going to go with "Used a few years down the road".

*Definitely the new WRX, drove one of those and was pretty impressed.

*The '13-'14 Challenger SRT Core, which was the SRT-8 with the basic cloth interior and all stripped down for cheaper.

*ND Miata

*Maybe the Frisbee twins but not very certain there. Kinda sick of seeing them.

I just finished dumping $3500 into my MSM, so it's unlikely I'll want/need to buy for a while. If it blows up, a Fiesta ST, ND Miata, and possibly Golf R are my short list. I'd love to find a used Cayman, but would want 2009 or newer. At that point, availability and price become an issue. Plus, I'd really rather have a Cayman S which are stupid expensive. I'd also settle for a British Racing Green V6 Jaguar F-Type with a manual but without the glass roof. But there's no way I'm buying it new, and it's a unicorn on the used market.

Brett_Murphy wrote: Let's change direction a bit: What cars, available new, right now, have your attention, either as a new purchase of a used purchase a few years down the road?

V6 mustang. Without a doubt. LOVE the appearance. Handling is there. Power is adequate. Price should come down, I hope. Insurance reasonable.

Also, the ND Miata, BRZ/FRS, and the Ford ST hatchbacks are all on the radar once they are $10k cars. Note that I have not spent more than $4400 on a car yet. And even that was just for a reliable newish one for my wife. My personal max is $3400 for the low mileage Miata.

Sorry the optimism in the original post got dimmed for a while there. I agree with you, OP. Great cars out there to choose from, and definitely a reason to smile.

My DD '99 2.5 RS just rolled 225k, and I've been debating what I would replace it with if needed. The practical contender is currently a '17 GTI sport for 20k, the "shouldnt but would be fun" is a PP '17 Mustang GT for 30k, and the wildly impractical but berkley it choice is a 2008+ Vantage

Focus ST, BRZ, ND Miata will be on my radar 10 or 15 years from now.

Gearheadotaku wrote:

Datsun310Guy wrote:

stroker wrote:

Woody wrote: $40k is still an absurd amount of money in my mind.

+1

+2

+10 I don't understand how anyone can afford a $20k car much less a 40K-50K+

I lease a $20,000 Jetta for $155/month. That's how. Nobody can actually afford to buy or own these things. Leases are a boondoggle to keep the inventory moving and pad sales - and I'm more than happy to play the game of chipping down sales prices and jacking up residuals, all with a subsidized money factor.

http://leasehackr.com/

Flynlow wrote: Sorry the optimism in the original post got dimmed for a while there. I agree with you, OP. Great cars out there to choose from, and definitely a reason to smile.

Oh, I agree there is cool stuff out there. I just can't afford it on my salary. Personally, I still think the Hellcat brothers are a damn good bargain at $60K. I mean, they are factory-warrantied 707hp, RWD ballistic missiles available right from the dealership

The Fiesta ST is at the tippy top of my want list. No way would we able to (responsibly) afford a car payment though. I'm hoping I can get one in my driveway within the next five years though. It would be a good way to celebrate when I finish paying off my student loans three years from now!

Dr Ribs Revere wrote: According to the internet: - average US Salary =~$55k - average US Car price =~$33k $40k is more than most people can (should) reasonably afford. Hence why there are so many buyers with 72 month loans and continually rolling over negative equity. Difficult for the average consumer to pay off a car in the first place much less even begin to comprehend a cash purchase.

Median Income in 1965: $7000

• 1965 Corvette Coupe (327): $4200 (61%)
• VW BUG : $1500 (21%)
• Ford Mustang (V6): $2500 (35%)
• Ford Fairlane (289): $2300 (32%)

Current average (using numbers above) = 60%

Of note, the "average" car you would get today is WAY more car then a 65 Corvette, and likely faster (not nearly as nice looking of course).

Some of it depends on priorities. I can see how people "afford" it. I have chosen to spend the money elsewhere.

-If my wife didn't have a horse? Car payment.

-If I didn't have student loans? Car payment.

-If my kid didn't go to proschool? Two car payments.

-If we didn't save for retirement? Car payment.

-If I didn't do 3 autocrosses per month? Car payment.

And so on.

10k buys an E90 BMW 335i, another 10k gets you to 700 horsepower, another 10k gets you some fairly special suspension, another 10k puts you in tires for a season of racing somewhere.

That's a pretty cool, if silly use of 40k, I think.

Brett_Murphy wrote: -What cars, available new, right now, have your attention, either as a new purchase of a used purchase a few years down the road?

Probably not your intended direction either, but right now the new car we're looking at for my wife is a CX-9 (new) to replace the 2007 Odyssey (which we also bought new). :)

Now that I don't have to drive nearly as much, the 2nd gen CTS-V sedan definitely has my attention. 556hp with Cadillac depreciation. Exhaust + pulley + tune easily puts you over 550whp.

Cactus wrote: 10k buys an E90 BMW 335i, another 10k gets you to 700 horsepower, another 10k gets you some fairly special suspension, another 10k puts you in tires for a season of racing somewhere. That's a pretty cool, if silly use of 40k, I think.

If you think $10k is enough for a season's worth of racing slicks on a 3600lb 700HP car... well, that's just cute as a button! That's what it costs for a 1950lb 300HP E30 :)

codrus wrote: Probably not your intended direction either, but right now the new car we're looking at for my wife is a CX-9 (new) to replace the 2007 Odyssey (which we also bought new). :)

Perfectly legitimate answer, sometimes practicality is a must.

In reply to Brett_Murphy:

My apologies for immediately derailing this thread.

Woody wrote: In reply to Brett_Murphy: My apologies for immediately derailing this thread.

I prolly didn't help much, either. I can't afford slot cars right now...

No worries, guys. I completely understand why people don't buy new; I've bought one new car in my life, and it didn't cost me anything near $40k. It's just that the number of pretty neat cars on the market now are making me wish I could afford to buy more toys.

That being said, if I can't afford a Focus RS at the moment, I might as well be considering not affording a McLaren; the odds of either showing up in my driveway are the same.

Brett_Murphy wrote: That being said, if I can't afford a Focus RS at the moment, I might as well be considering not affording a McLaren; the odds of either showing up in my driveway are the same.

Ironically, thats one of the ways I stay optimistic. If I sold my house, sold all my other cars, and lived as cheaply as possible (rent a bedroom for $300/month, eat ramen, no booze), I probably COULD afford a McLaren. Most people with a house payment could if they make that their sole priority. I won't, because I have other responsibilities, but just knowing that it's possible is a source of comfort when daydreaming possible cars

Tom_Spangler wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Thanks for not disappointing on the righteous indignation over new car purchases. If it weren't for us saps, you wouldn't be able to buy one used. Jesus Christ.

Predictable as the morning sun, isn't it?

Plus 10,000,000.

It gets really really old fast around here people complaining about other peoples buying habits. The average reader on this board would get really pissed if all us morons stopped buying new cars as a) the economy would dive into the E36 M3ter so fast we'd all be praying for 2008 again. b) with people not buying new cars old ones wouldn't depreciate and that mint 05 Z06 for $20K would fast become a $40K vehicle. Old cars only depreciate as new ones reduce their value.

Someone pointed out up thread that the average income of a new car buyer is $80k not the national average of $55k, also they pointed out that many new cars are leased. There are other things to consider as well. I get a new car every year as a subsidized company car. So for my family that's one new car a year being 'sold' there are millions of company cars out there that end up on the used market. Also there is maintenance. I know many people who are intelligent, educated with good jobs. They don't have the facilities, knowledge, space, tools or shock horror desire to learn how to maintain a car in their busy lives with jobs, houses and children. Guess what? It doesn't take much for repairs to surpass the payment of a new car for these people. I know someone who was charged $1,500 to have new brake hard brake lines fitted to their crown Vic when they took it to a dealer (and this is not a knock of dealers). Before I started getting company cars we got a new car every 3-4 years as we put 25-30k miles on our main family car a year. Our last utter total complete pile of crap new Toyota was completely worn out after 100k miles and was a mechanical E36 M3 box. Even with me doing the work it was time to punt on it.

One final but very important point. It can be cheaper to buy a new car than a used one in real terms. Ask Tom Spangler. About 8 years ago he bought a new Taurus X after looking at used Freestyles (basically the same car but updated with a 6 speed auto and 3.5L engine) The new car cost less than the asking price of 1-2 year old ones, had a lower interest rate available, cost less to run and he still has it 8 years later. Why is that wrong?

Back to the original point. Yes, it's an awesome time to be alive as a car enthusiast. The best, safest, fastest, most economical and cleanest cars we've ever had available in massive numbers for very reasonable money. People want to bitch about the cost of a new car go and check out what it costs for something as simple as a washing machine, refrigerator, TV or similar. Look at the technology, number of parts, features that cars have in them. AND they have to start every day from -40 to +140 F in hostile environments with rain, snow etc. while getting pelted with rocks, salt, lightning, bird E36 M3, tree sap and still perform with reliability that just doesn't exist int he consumer electronics market. I actually think cars are stupidly cheap when compared to other purchases. Have you looked at the price of berkeleying mattresses for example?

The biggest threat to our hobby isn't the environmental movement, it isn't the economy, the cost, fossil fuel supplies, it's simply the worlds danger tolerance. I still bet that within 30 years major Cities like Shanghai, Karachi, London, Berlin, Paris etc. will start to ban Human controlled vehicles in their city centers. The US will lag behind but will get there by the turn of the century.

It's not wrong at all. There are two basic types of internet opinions on any new car thread.

• Those who believe that saving money at the cost of their time is most important.
• Those that believe saving time is worth some extra money.

I have been both of these people at one point or another and reserve the option to flip again but as I close in on 50 I realize that I can always make more money but that time I have been squandering like it was free is actually finite and all the money in the world ain't going to get me any more of it.

I only work on things I enjoy working on. Period. I'll never lay in the snow to change a ball joint again as long as I can afford to make it someone else's job. I like my rattle and trouble free car. I like knowing that if my new car won't start all I need is a phone call and the problem gets fixed. To change the oil - all I need is to have a cup of coffee in the lobby for 10 minutes. That isn't to say I won't change my own oil... but 2 years of maintenance was included. So, not until November 01, 2018 ;)

My new bylaws are: Used cars are for play, new cars are for reliable transport and play.

In reply to Huckleberry:

That is excellent.

Huckleberry wrote: I only work on things I enjoy working on. Period. I'll never lay in the snow to change a ball joint again as long as I can afford to make it someone else's job.

That's what has me looking at new cars, too. Instead of buying another project car, I've decided to make my current daily driver (Forester XT) my project car. I know the maintenance on it, I know when things will become due and I can keep up with them as required and maybe not get surprised by a large repair. I can also start hoarding parts for the STi drive-train swap I've always wanted to do and not have to worry about downtime when I wind up taking 12 months to finish it.

Huckleberry wrote: It's not wrong at all. There are two basic types of internet opinions on any new car thread. - Those who believe that saving money at the cost of their time is most important. - Those that believe saving time is worth some extra money. I have been both of these people at one point or another and reserve the option to flip again but as I close in on 50 I realize that I can always make more money but that time I have been squandering like it was free is actually finite and all the money in the world ain't going to get me any more of it. I only work on things I enjoy working on. Period. I'll never lay in the snow to change a ball joint again as long as I can afford to make it someone else's job. I like my rattle and trouble free car. I like knowing that if my new car won't start all I need is a phone call and the problem gets fixed. To change the oil - all I need is to have a cup of coffee in the lobby for 10 minutes. That isn't to say I won't change my own oil... but 2 years of maintenance was included. So, not until November 01, 2018 ;) My new bylaws are: Used cars are for play, new cars are for reliable transport and play.

Well said. I will add a corollary that near-new cars these days are basically as good as new, especially if you still have a warranty. To whit, we paid $46k for our 2015 Expedition in February. A boatload of money, to be sure, but the sticker was just north of $70k. That was with 13k miles and plenty of factory warranty left, which has already come in handy. In that case, buying new made almost no sense.