What Car? - 3up, Double Budget, OneLap Ride

In reply to z31maniac :

Most "track day" people are capable of pushing much harder than they usually do. On One Lap you get a clear track in front of you and the knowledge that time matters. You have a tendency to stay in the gas a little longer and brake a little later and harder. You're never (or hardly ever) backing off because you caught someone, and you never run a section at 8/10 to cooldown and reset. The people who drive properly fast have all done time trial or road racing qualifying and have cars set up for that kind of abuse, but it's the new guys who think it's a week long track day that get caught out. 

In reply to sleepyhead :

Also, I get what you're saying. I'm never that worried about prep to be honest. Is the car safe? Will it go and stop and put a grin on my face? As long as both of those are yes, I'm usually good to go. As for worrying about the mechanical bits.... that's just my overactive sense of mechanical sympathy. Although... it was spot on when I parked the truck and found the rear u-joint eating itself... my spidey senses were tingling. 

I'm not going to have a vehicle that I can use for this type of event for a few years and if I get the chance, I'm along for the ride and to be a good pit bunny (I have references for that last one). OLoA is a bucket list item that I just want to enjoy. Good, bad, great or terrible.  But this is GRM and we tend to stray on these types of topics and we all love to stuff in some crazy random ideas that we've thought of along the way to see is some other sucker will try it and we can live vicariously through their trials and tribulations. Its what we do best.... we are Grade A enablers. 

mazdeuce said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Most "track day" people are capable of pushing much harder than they usually do. On One Lap you get a clear track in front of you and the knowledge that time matters. You have a tendency to stay in the gas a little longer and brake a little later and harder. You're never (or hardly ever) backing off because you caught someone, and you never run a section at 8/10 to cooldown and reset. The people who drive properly fast have all done time trial or road racing qualifying and have cars set up for that kind of abuse, but it's the new guys who think it's a week long track day that get caught out. 

Gotcha. I can see how that sense of urgency would make one hammer on it harder than you typically would at an HPDE. 

Wonder how competitive (with a better driver than me) a new Camaro SS 1LE would be in the under $50k 3.5L+ class.

z31maniac said:

mazdeuce said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Most "track day" people are capable of pushing much harder than they usually do. On One Lap you get a clear track in front of you and the knowledge that time matters. You have a tendency to stay in the gas a little longer and brake a little later and harder. You're never (or hardly ever) backing off because you caught someone, and you never run a section at 8/10 to cooldown and reset. The people who drive properly fast have all done time trial or road racing qualifying and have cars set up for that kind of abuse, but it's the new guys who think it's a week long track day that get caught out. 

Gotcha. I can see how that sense of urgency would make one hammer on it harder than you typically would at an HPDE. 

Wonder how competitive (with a better driver than me) a new Camaro SS 1LE would be in the under $50k 3.5L+ class.

a 2014 1LE finished 3rd in class last year, behind the Falken mustang and a really well prepped/driven C5 'vette

What I'm really interested in is the 2.0 Camaro. You can run all the tire and all the aero and still be in small bore. 

mazdeuce said:

What I'm really interested in is the 2.0 Camaro. You can run all the tire and all the aero and still be in small bore. 

That's good and all, but you're going to have to turn up the power wick to keep up with Neil's big turbo

That's really the question, isn't it? You can put as much tire as the GTR's under the Camaro. The car has very good aero for what it is, so how much more power do you need? 

In reply to mazdeuce :

Yes.  <-------- That's how much. 

mazdeuce said:

That's really the question, isn't it? You can put as much tire as the GTR's under the Camaro. The car has very good aero for what it is, so how much more power do you need? 

I'm going to assume more than the stock turbo + 3" full exhaust + E85 can deliver?

In reply to mazdeuce :

That's probably one reason why Andy Hollis does well at One Lap - he can apply that no warm-up, zero to 100% driving attitude from autocross to his track laps.  So driver prep for One Lap should probably have an equal amount of track days for the speed practice and autocross for the mental side.

Ian F said:

In reply to mazdeuce :

That's probably one reason why Andy Hollis does well at One Lap - he can apply that no warm-up, zero to 100% driving attitude from autocross to his track laps.  So driver prep for One Lap should probably have an equal amount of track days for the speed practice and autocross for the mental side.

Yes, autocross clearly is a help... based on my observations the last few years.

Also: YouTube
I spent about an hour and a half about four nights a week from Jan to May watching track videos (although, it helped that I'd driven Sebring, CMP, and Dominion before.)  Only corner I had real trouble with was the bridge through the downhill onto the front straight at Road Atlanta... never really got the car in the right place and pointed the right way coming under the bridge.

YouTube, and sometimes iRacing can bridge the gap, and have a map for you to visualize so you know where the track is going.  That, plus a bike/scooter to refresh that map in the morning can go a long way to pushing your level up.

Bobzilla said:

I know that 16x7 +40 clears on the 01-06 Elantra, not sure on the Spectra but I suspect it's similar. Stupidly they are 4x114.3 so there'd have to be a hub swap to the 5x114 but I don't think any of those would fit. 

EDIT: the 17x9 might, but I bet you'd need to do some fender cutting to make it clear. I had an 02 Elantra and 17x7 +38 with 215's would rub the rear bumper tab on compression but there was room inside for the wheel and tire to fit.

Theoretically I don't have a problem with fender cutting... aside from never having done it before.  Seems like "fender flare all the things" is an idea here... so time to try my hand at it?  Although, it doesn't look like there's a lot of space to pull that off in the rear.

The real issue I keep coming across with that generation Elantra (and the 4x114 vs. 5x114 vs. 4x100) is: tires.  
The oem 24.2"-ish diameter squeezes the available tires in a 17"... and the swap to  5x114 and tiburon rotors looks like it'll require at least a 16" wheel in the front.

they do look pretty good lowered though...

A cursory peek around the internet shows 400whp is readily achievable. That gives a power/weight in the same ballpark as the V wagon with much less weight and way more tire and better suspension options. At that point the car would be way outside my abilities. 

Rota Slips in 15" will fit the Sonata/Tib rotor/caliper swap. I ran that for a long time (not the slips, but that brake package). 

EDIT: just checked, a 235/40/17 is 24.4" in diameter. I ran a 215/45/17 on 17x7 with my 02 Sedan which is a 24.6" tire. That's a lot of tire for a 2600lb car. 

Bobzilla said:

Rota Slips in 15" will fit the Sonata/Tib rotor/caliper swap. I ran that for a long time (not the slips, but that brake package). 

EDIT: just checked, a 235/40/17 is 24.4" in diameter. I ran a 215/45/17 on 17x7 with my 02 Sedan which is a 24.6" tire. That's a lot of tire for a 2600lb car. 

Maybe, but there are more options in 245/40/17... and it's only marginally bigger

mazdeuce said:

A cursory peek around the internet shows 400whp is readily achievable. That gives a power/weight in the same ballpark as the V wagon with much less weight and way more tire and better suspension options. At that point the car would be way outside my abilities. 

 A cursory peak around my garage indicates that adding a turbo to a car I don't have in time for May is way outside my abilities.    I was going to go poking through this thread, just because... but it's useless.  Guess I'll have to dig around elsewhere for that fix.

mazdeuce said:

A cursory peek around the internet shows 400whp is readily achievable. That gives a power/weight in the same ballpark as the V wagon with much less weight and way more tire and better suspension options. At that point the car would be way outside my abilities. 

Just like an SS 1LE is way above my abilities. I'd have to recruit one of my buddies who can wheel to be a 2nd driver so the car would have a shot at the class.

Looks like some interesting entries are already starting to crop up

That model T looks awesome 

I had an revelation on the way in to work this morning.... I'm putting together something. Gotta check some things first.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/704616137/overview/

That was my thought as I came in. It already has trans, oil and P/S coolers, brakes should be adequate and your 17x9' should fit with 255's. They're big and comfy and you'd never get tired of Blues Brothers references. That 3.9 shuld be able to handle the 75shot fairly easily. no need for premium etc. 

But finding suspensions and pads for these are next to impossible. Not sure if the earlier W-body stuff fits (did find a 2006 Grand Prix Coilover kit). So that idea was bust. 

Bobzilla said:

But finding suspensions and pads for these are next to impossible. Not sure if the earlier W-body stuff fits (did find a 2006 Grand Prix Coilover kit). So that idea was bust. 

G-Loc and/or Carbotech... or possibly Porterfield... (although the info for them is a little difficult for me to decipher off-hand)  all look like they have something, although they require some lead time on obscure stuff

I've actually been digging around on 2.5S Altimas (w/ the 5spd)... 190-200hp doesn't look that hard n/a, ditto 2750#s (curb is 3050 stock).  plus should be eligible for econo.

That of course had me looking at 2.4 5spd Sonatas... just gotta like that double wishbone... but the gearing, 3250#s curb, and 162hp seem like too much to over come.  although might be enough to stay ahead of a 2014 Sonic?

How 'bout an 2005 2.4 5spd accord lx?  
(only other dbl wishbone sedan i know of in this "class")

On the accord, just bring oil. But can you even find one still usable for $3k?

Bobzilla said:

On the accord, just bring oil. But can you even find one still usable for $3k?

maybe, plus there's always copart 

although, it's not much better than the sonata lb/hp-wise; and the sonata's got 2 extra: inches of total legroom, and cubic feet of trunk space

Are the Theta 5M's stronger than the Lamba 5A's?

Generally, though, there's more 5M Altimas than there are 5M Accords than there are 5M Sonatas... based on quick searches so far.

I don't know of any theta 5-spd manual failures off the top of my head. The problem though will be lack of amenities like cruise control. The Lambda/auto will still be heaps faster than the Theta/manual. 

EDIT: if youre going to look at the Sonata theta/5m check the same generation Optima. They shared the same underpinnings, but Kia kept the Delta for it's V6 option which I never understood. 

looks like cruise is standard on the sonatas, but only on the EX optimas.  however, all the manual optimas I've found so far look like LX.  curb on the optima's is 3160-ish... so it shows that 160#s weight should be "simple"

agreed, though, Lambda would be faster... they're also a lot more common.  130k, fluid & pray?