What car? These threads are so rare here

Outback and Legacy are nice, but the complexity and fuel economy cost of 4wd scare me... convince me. I have no need for awd, but the rallyX capable does sound nice.

I am not going to buy a ZX2 and related. I owned one ZX2. It lasted about 10K miles on it's replacement transmission before I was reduced to 1-3-5, that bugged me, so did the spark plug popping out of the head, and the swaybar falling off. It was nearly everything I wanted in this car minus all of the reliability I actually need. I couldn't depend on it to actually get me to work and back.

Protoges are different if I remember correctly though...

Elantra is interesting. Are there performance variants? What years? Why not just get a Saab?

You mentioned tibs and got my interest, what about tibs?

Thanks for all of the input

-Brian

tuna55 wrote: Outback and Legacy are nice, but the complexity and fuel economy cost of 4wd scare me... convince me. I have no need for awd, but the rallyX capable does sound nice.

I routinely got over 27 MPG while thrashing on my AWD Impreza. Driven a bit more gently, the Impreza Outback will get the same MPG, the Legacy a bit less. I can't remember for sure, but I think out Legacy got around 23 highway (didn't have it long enough to figure in town).

In my opinion, AWD is one of those "you never understand it until you have it" situations. I can't sell you on AWD until you try is out. It is also no more complex than your old FWD Subaru, and the gearbox of an AWD Impreza is MUCH more resilient than that of the old FWD models. With a Subaru, it is AWD all of the time, there is not switching back and forth like in a 4WD truck. The only downfall to it that I can think of, is you want to be sure to carry a full sized-spare instead of a donut. If you have to drive for an extended length of time on a donut with AWD you will run the risk of burning out your center diff.

I CAN sell you on an Impreza, you just need to drive it first

Sounds interesting, at the very least. I'll need to figure out how to drive one of those babies then.

Thanks

P71, I get 21mpg's with NO highway drving. And be sides it nice to "lets take the Intersecptor"

BMW: E36 328i, E30 325i, E34 535i, E28 535is

I dig the older Outbacks with the 2.5L 4 banger and a 5sp, as well and the 6 cyl NA Audi A4s if AWD is your bag.

Saab 9000 Turbo, E36 325i, E34 525i

Saab 900 or 9000 vs Turbo brick: Fight!

318Ti or 325is vs the winner

And... go

Thanks for every suggestion.

Subarus are still under investigation, especially to find one in my price range that doesn't look like an actual rolling turd.

-Brian

ford focus, vw golf, mazda protege, nissan maxima,

saab 900, 9-3 or 9000 are also good options.

e36 might be a good option depending on condition

tuna55 wrote: Saab 900 or 9000 vs Turbo brick: Fight! 318Ti or 325is vs the winner And... go Thanks for every suggestion. Subarus are still under investigation, especially to find one in my price range that doesn't look like an actual rolling turd. -Brian

Saab 9000 Turbo Aero 5spd wins out of the swedes.

325is vs. 9000 Aero really comes down to how much stuff you have to haul, and if you want something with ridiculous passing power, or RWD.

I have no idea which i would pick, personally. I'd like both.

OK Celica, for your response, why 9000 vs 900? I know nothing about Saabs...

tuna55 wrote: OK Celica, for your response, why 9000 vs 900? I know nothing about Saabs...

Depending on what vintage you're looking for, really. The Saab Aeros could be had with the 2.3T motor, which i find to be a better motor. Still gets 30mpg highway, they're comfy as hell, they handle surprisingly well for a FWD cruiser, and they're FAST. I don't say just quick... they're FAST. They were the fastest production car for years in the 50-70mph passing acceleration test. Beating out Ferrari, Lambo, etc.... They're very reliable when kept up on, and build quality is pretty good. Not to mention, they're cheap these days.

If you really like the look of the 900 better, then go for it. I choose the added grunt. But, if it came down to a NICE 900 SPG vs. a 9000 2.3T, i'm not positive which i would choose.

Normal 900, turbo or otherwise? I'm all over the 9000.

So 9000 > turbo brick? Would junkyard dog agree with that? I doubt it, hehe

I do like hauling capability, which is why the 318ti was mentioned, but a decent trunk should be okay. Nobody has bothered about tiburons, is there a good reason, other than ugliness?

Does a Maxima 3.0 5 spd beat all of these?

tuna55 wrote: So 9000 > turbo brick? Would junkyard dog agree with that? I doubt it, hehe I do like hauling capability, which is why the 318ti was mentioned, but a decent trunk should be okay. Nobody has bothered about tiburons, is there a good reason, other than ugliness? Does a Maxima 3.0 5 spd beat all of these?

I dunno about junkyard dog.... it's really down to preference. If i wanted a wagon, i'd buy a Volvo. If i wanted a relatively sexy, sportier car, i'd buy the Saab. You can haul more stuff in the Volvo. You'll haul more ass in the Saab, and probably get better gas mileage. Both are probably reliable, i would give the nod to the Saab.

Screw the tibby.

V6 5-speed Maxima? Great car. It's just so..... mundane.

Saab 9000 Turbo =

Read up on the http://quasimotors.com/buying.htm site though, that site is full of really helpful advice on buying and maintaining them. I'm planning on going all out with the maintenance as per that sites suggestions to keeping these cars happy.

For that price range, if you want something reliable, spacious and not already beat to death, I would start with something a bit more prosaic. Why not an Civic Sedan? You get the room, they are not all riced out in most cases, and anything you can do to an Si or hatch you can do to a sedan. You did say occasional autocrossing right? More stable at track days as a bonus.

Or the 5-speed Accord? One year they were pretty small and sporty.
The Maxima is always a popular pick. 190hp, 5 speed, great V-6.
How about shooting a bit lower? Base model Focus, Countour, Escort, Protege, etc. Then you get a solid, reliable car at a good price, with plenty of hop-up parts just waiting at your local pick-a-part or e-bay.

You stated a preference for RWD, so its early Volvo or BMW. But you also wanted a wagon, which is much harder to find in a BMW.

As for my choice, I'll be looking for a 900 turbo as a winter car now that I've returned to snow country. Thats the other reason for selling the wagon.

Two words: SRT 4

I'm not into Civics, as previously stated. I could be forced into an Integra type R or something, but it would be a wallet stretcher for sure. No ford based front drivers like that after my ZX2 debacle. Again, I could be forced into a Countour SVT or something if needbe, but the wallet again...

It looks like Saab 9-3, 900, 9000, 325i, 318ti, 940 in no order.

JYdog, if your car had a stick already and was a touch cheaper I'd be done based on availability alone. Most BMWs I find are etas or beat to death and I can't find many Saabs in the right year or option combinations. I'll keep my eye out for more as time passes.

I checked out the quasi motors site and it frankly scared me a bit, the idea of an enthusiast saying that 200k miles is a huge deal is a little heartbreaking. I'd like to do something different this time (camaro,camaro,chevy truck,zx2,gmc truck), but am afraid of an expiration date on something like that. The cars are sexy looking and sweet enough for me to get over it for the right price though, especially with those tips.

Which brings up another point for the BMW or Volvo. If the drivetrain ever fails spectacularly, a 302,350,lsx is only a few welds away.

ergg...

Keep the ideas coming guys, all of the help so far has been great!

-Brian

Having owned several F-bodies, I have to advise against them for your criteria. They excel at being a poor-man's 'vette, but otherwise they don't really do much for your parameters. They seat 4 as long as the back seat passengers are 7 years old. "cargo" space can be defined as two cases of beer and a sleeping bag. They are tiny on the inside and deceivingly big on the outside. They can be made to excel at performance, but in stock form they are a bit limp-noodle: heavy, clumsy, disproportionate, poor visibility.

What about a 5-series wagon? E34? Especially the early 87-90 versions that still had the M20 2.5 instead of the M50 2.5. A little less power, but simple and reliable (and cheaper to buy). An E34 will provide spirited driving for the same investment as a similar E30, but way more cargo space.

If you don't mind a little extra fuel cost, what about an A/G body? Massive upgrade potential, full frame, V8 with endless swap possibilities in the future, and $2-4k will buy you a sweet vehicle. I had an 87 Cutlass Salon with the 442 appearance package (which just gave you the stripes, the rallye guages, and the 442 wheels without the upgraded engine). It was a flawless 60,000 mile original car with mile-deep paint, floor shift OD, buckets, and every option except T-tops and I picked it up from a USED CAR DEALER for $3600 in 2001. It would give me 22 mpg if I was really careful, but that's not spectacular considering its 140 hp rating. But, any of the GM motors are a bolt-in swap; buick, olds, chevy, pontiac, cadillac, and since the 200-4r is a universal-fit bellhousing, its a no-brainer. Drop in an LT1 and enjoy 25 mpg and 300 hp. Spring for the motor mounts, drop in an LS1 and enjoy 350 hp and 30 mpg. Had I kept mine it was going to get a 302 Windsor just for giggles.

Baskerville would have called my olds "reet" if it weren't so new. Check it out... rockin' the raised white letters and the mudflaps.

In reply to tuna55:

Here is an example of an Elantra GT I found on Autotrader: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=259214528&dealer_id=1391561&car_year=2002&rdm=1245732469672&model=ELANTR&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2001&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=100&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=HYUND&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=0&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=18901&advanced=&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=&max_price=4000&cardist=63&standard=false

The GT has the stiffer suspension and you can get Eibachs and a Tibby rear sway bar will make the car handle! There is decent aftermarket for it and the Beta motor is a decent powerplant.

Tiburons can be a little heavy but they go like stink with the V6. You can get a 6 speed with the V6 on the gt model. No LSD though and you will have the backseat of a sports car pretty much though..

Good replies on everything guys.

No offense to the A/G bodies, but for this car I am looking for agility over power. I've owned two F bodies, and driven a few G bodies fairly often. They are nice, but not exactly what I am looking for here.

The E34 is a suggestion that I hadn't thought of yet, I will look into those.

Wow, that Elantra is ugly. Ugliness wouldn't matter if it were lower in the price spectrum and a stick. No automatics this time if I can help it.

Good point on the Tiburon as far as back seats.

Keep the suggestions coming...

-Brian

If you look around SaabCentral, you will see TONS of people running those cars well over 200k miles. If you check it out good, and take care of it, it'll take care of you.

Remember this is the same company that had that 900 go over 1 million miles or whatever it was.

I'd like to re-suggest the MX6/Probe, too. Whether it's a cherry 1g with the 2.2 Turbo, or the 2g with the V6, they're good cars.

The MX6 is officially included.

Here is the list so far as I see it.

Saab 9000: quick and nice, relatively cheap. No hatches? FWD.

Saab 900: Slower than 9000, but prettier and cheap. I love the three and fiver door versions. FWD though.

Turbo Brick: Turbo bulletproof motor, tons of hauling capability and RWD. Not very pretty, and would take some work to get it to handle.

BMW 318ti/325i: Nice features, RWD, handling and steering feel. Expensive insurance, smaller than most mentioned. Most are beat to death.

BMW 525 E34: Very nice and luxurious. Don't know much about them. No hatches or wagons with a stick.

MX6: interesting. FWD and quick enough. Could be fun. 4ws??

SRT4: way too much $$

Maxima v6 5spd: quick and nice. Cheap, but FWD and "mundane".

Did I miss anything?

You can get the 9000 in a hatch. Most of the Aeros were. It's a 4 door hatch. It doesn't make a HUGE difference in cargo space, but it is a difference. It's more a difference in look. I think the hatches look better in this case, and i'm a coupe kinda guy.

A 1g MX6 GT turbo w/ 4ws is interesting, but i wouldn't actively look for one with 4ws. Mine doesn't have it, and it has a better turning radius than my Celica. And they are CERTAINLY quick enough.

Could look into VR6 Golf/GTIs, but i admit i don't know much about their pricing these days.

I think i may have mentioned the earlier 90s Audis, but here it is again.

So it's http://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/1229367849.html

Nice but I prefer a Hatch

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/1224442669.html

http://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/1228776423.html

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/1222815264.html

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=24&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-ALL|M-30|B-4000|D-279|N-N|R-200|I-1%2c7|P-PRICE+descending|Q-descending|S-4|Y-1920-1921-1922-1923-1924-1925-1926-1927-1928-1929-1930-1931-1932-1933-1934-1935-1936-1937-1938-1939-1940-1941-1942-1943-1944-1945-1946-1947-1948-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953-1954-1955-1956-1957-1958-1959-1960-1961-1962-1963-1964-1965-1966-1967-1968-1969-1970-1971-1972-1973-1974-1975-1976-1977-1978-1979-1980-1981-1982-1983-1984-1985-1986-1987-1988-1989-1990-1991-1992-1993-1994-1995-1996-1997-1998-1999-2000-2001-2002-2003-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008-2009|Z-29651&aff=national&paId=307300414&recnum=0&leadExists=true

http://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/1224015397.html

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=262291052&dealer_id=56956943&car_year=1998&rdm=1245692613745&model=ALTIMA&num_records=25&systime=&make3=HYUND&make2=NISSAN&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1985&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=143&fuel=Gasoline&only_price=1&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=200&marketZipError=false&model3=TIBURO&model2=MAX&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=NISSAN&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=CONVERT&body_style=COUPE&body_style=HATCH&body_style=SEDAN&body_style=WAGON&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=29651&advanced=y&only_photo=1&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=4000&cardist=117&standard=false

???