What does it take for a car to have a salvage title?

Just wondering because my celica has been through a couple of previous owner related accidents and carfax still showed up clean.

Way too complicated to define...

Every state is completely different in how they issue salvage titles. In some states they only issue Salvage if it's been totalled. Some states issue salvage titles if it exceeds 100k miles, which is past the "mechanical limits" of the odometer (a throwback to the days when odometers only had 5 digits).

Then there are insurance laws... In CA, my wife had serious hail damage to her Tercel. I made the claim and it was going to total the car. I had three choices: 1) total the car, take a check, and surrender the car, 2) total the car, keep it, and accept a check for the car's value minus the salvage value and have the state re-issue a salvage title, 3) deny the claim and pretend nothing happened.

In the case of that Tercel, it could have been totaled because of some cosmetic dents and given a salvage title, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the car at all except looking like a golf ball.

But, my wife's Mercedes (which was purchased to replace the Tercel) also got serious hail damage. Although the hail damage to the Mercedes was nearly 5 times as expensive to fix as the Tercel, the value of the Mercedes kept it from being totaled.

Here is the problem... You might find a car that was crushed by a monster truck in the arena-of-death, sunk to the bottom of the sea for three years, used as a homeless shelter for a while, then shined up for sale and it DOESN'T have a salvage title if nobody reported it as such...

...OR, it could mean a perfectly pristine car got a fender bender where the cost of the repair exceeded the salvage value of the car and the insurance company totaled it.

The amount of differences from state to state, from insurance company to insurance company, insurance adjuster to insurance adjuster, and car owner to car owner is so vast that "salvage" title means almost nothing.

... in fact, to me salvage title means, "nobody's going to buy this car, I need to go inspect it and see if its a good investment." To others it means, "No way, I'm not gonna risk it."

the other thing I forgot to mention.....

Carfax is only as good as the shops and insurance companies that report it.

I've run multiple auto repair and body shops over the years. I've worked at body shops that report a shopping cart ding, and others that didn't report a rollover. There is no obligation for a shop OR an insurance company to report anything to Carfax. Carfax strictly searches public records in case anyone has reported anything.

The odd thing is... my wife's Tercel. It could have been reported as a Salvage title with nothing wrong with it other than some dimples, yet I just replaced a transmission in an 08 Caddy Escalade with a used tranny with nearly 300k on it. Would you want to buy it? I doubt you would, but unless I personally report it to Carfax, it won't show up.

In a nutshell.... Carfax is potentially a waste of time. Its one of those things where if it turns up nothing, it means nothing. If it turns up something, it means there are definitely skeletons in the closet. Carfax INC knows that. they don't have to tell you anything. All they do is report that it may have problems and by clicking "here" you understand that our report doesn't mean s#!t

smog7 wrote: Just wondering because my celica has been through a couple of previous owner related accidents and carfax still showed up clean.

The short answer is that it has to be considered a loss by insurance at some point.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Not necessarily true, in Ohio if a car is forfeited to a towing company it gets a salvage title. I currently have a '91 Accord that got a salvage title this way. I'm sure this only happens with older cars though, I can't see anyone forfeiting a $10,000 car.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

smog7 wrote: Just wondering because my celica has been through a couple of previous owner related accidents and carfax still showed up clean.

The short answer is that it has to be considered a loss by insurance at some point.

Which basically means that the damage is 75% or more of the vehicles value. Technically, you could park too close to a parking block in a 944, rip the front lower valance, and "total" the car.

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Not necessarily true, in Ohio if a car is forfeited to a towing company it gets a salvage title. I currently have a '91 Accord that got a salvage title this way. I'm sure this only happens with older cars though, I can't see anyone forfeiting a $10,000 car.

Very true, i forgot.

Mine was just pertaining to accidents.

16vCorey wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

smog7 wrote: Just wondering because my celica has been through a couple of previous owner related accidents and carfax still showed up clean.

The short answer is that it has to be considered a loss by insurance at some point.

Which basically means that the damage is 75% or more of the vehicles value. Technically, you could park too close to a parking block in a 944, rip the front lower valance, and "total" the car.

Yep, it pisses off the AllTrac owners in particular. I've seen insurance companies total AllTracs because of 5mph parking lot fender benders.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

smog7 wrote: Just wondering because my celica has been through a couple of previous owner related accidents and carfax still showed up clean.

The short answer is that it has to be considered a loss by insurance at some point.

Yes, it just takes a stroke of the pen.

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Not necessarily true, in Ohio if a car is forfeited to a towing company it gets a salvage title. I currently have a '91 Accord that got a salvage title this way. I'm sure this only happens with older cars though, I can't see anyone forfeiting a $10,000 car.

Here (SC) you don't get a salvage title. I just don't recall what its called.

spitfirebill wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Not necessarily true, in Ohio if a car is forfeited to a towing company it gets a salvage title. I currently have a '91 Accord that got a salvage title this way. I'm sure this only happens with older cars though, I can't see anyone forfeiting a $10,000 car.

Here (SC) you don't get a salvage title. I just don't recall what its called.

Here (in Indiana) you get a bill of sale, and all the appropriate paperwork to get a clean title if you so desire.

That'd be nice to be able to get a clean title. in MN, you get a salvage title, you can't finance the car, most insurance companies won't let you put full coverage on it, ETC ETC. I've seen a few salvage titled cars i'd own, but don't want to get anywhere near them because of the potential to lose thousands in cash, because they aren't going to pay on it.

Seems like it's more of a legal description/status of a car that the owner registers with their state. In the case of insurance claims - you're basically selling the car to the insurance company, who in turn declares/registers it as salvage (probably because they don't want any liability with a repaired vehicle coming back to haunt them). With a towing or storage company, you're forfeiting ownership in lieu of storage fees. Each state determines what you can or can't do with a salvaged vehicle. Private owners wouldn't change the status because it kills the value of their car, but I bet you could if you really wanted to.

oldtin wrote: Seems like it's more of a legal description/status of a car that the owner registers with their state.

Exactly. I've done a lot of mechanic's liens in my tenure, and some states issue a salvage title for that, others don't.

A good example... We filed on an 03 Jag Convertible after repairing about $700 worth of tune-up. In the meantime the owner died, the executor was unreachable, and the state requires that we file within 30 days or we forfeit our rights to lien. It was a pristine 60k-mile jag that had nothing wrong with it, but it now has a salvage title because of the lien.

But we also repaired a rollover truck that was going to be totalled but the owner denied the claim and had us repair it with used body parts, so it maintained a clean title.

There is a very broad line. Salvage can mean nothing, and not salvage could still be a pile of junk.

If a car is stolen I believe it automatically gets a salvage title also.

My wife's Tercel we went ahead and totaled it. The settlement they offered was a very fair number (even minus my $500 deductible and the buyback price). Basically, we bought it for $3000, and they wrote us a check for $2500 and we kept the car. No brainer. We couldn't have sold it for that much. They basically bought my car and let me keep it. After that I lowered the insurance to bare minimum and used it as a beater. It was very liberating. It finally got smashed into bits when it met a cement wall at 50 mph and I just handed the title to the tow truck driver and waved goodbye.

I not only had a "free" car, but I wasn't spending money on the good insurance.

benzbaron wrote: If a car is stolen I believe it automatically gets a salvage title also.

In most states, yes. Some states will only give it a salvage title if there has been damage that equals 80% of its value, which is no different than just being in an accident.

Other states will only issue a salvage title if the car wasn't recovered and returned to the owner. For instance if its stolen and not found, and the owner accepts a claim check from the insurance, then the car turns up in a drug bust two years later, the title would be salvage. But if its found the next day with a dent in the door, its just returned and the owner can file a claim if he/she wants for the door dent, but no salvage title would be issued.

Funny, the more you learn the less you know.

spitfirebill wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Not necessarily true, in Ohio if a car is forfeited to a towing company it gets a salvage title. I currently have a '91 Accord that got a salvage title this way. I'm sure this only happens with older cars though, I can't see anyone forfeiting a $10,000 car.

Here (SC) you don't get a salvage title. I just don't recall what its called.

Um, disagree. The Trooper got nailed from behind last year, the damage exceeded 70% of the value of the vehicle. At that point, the insurance company considers it a total loss. They have to notify the state highway department in the event of a claim being filed.

At that point, you can: 1) take the money and give them the car 2) take the money, take a deduction for salvage value and get a salvage title or 3) not file a claim at all. I took Door # 2. I got a sizeable check from the insurance company in exchange for not filing a lawsuit, fixed it a LOT cheaper than the insurance company said but I had to get a salvage title.

That's fine; I still have a reliable paid for vehicle that doesn't look like a refugee from a demolition derby. Will it affect sale price, should it come to that? Maybe. But as it stands I have driven it since 2002 and with this check I have already turned a nice profit on it.

Meanwhile in Wisconsin, my 255k, three owner Dodge Ram has a different bed, inner and outer rockers, inner and outer front fenders, door bottoms, roof skin, interior, rear bumper, and rear cab sections than it came with from the factory. Only original body parts on it any more are most of the center of the floor, upper door jams, core support, front bumper, windshield frame, tailgate, firewall, and upper halves of the doors.

Clean title.

I also had an 88 5.0 Mustang Coupe that was rolled, pieced together with a donor car, rolled again, pieced together with a different donor car, and converted from a hatchback into a coupe.

Clean title.

From SEMA, a list of tax/title requirements in all 50 states (focused upon the "hobby car").

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62843

Courtesy Hemmings Motor News blog.

Curmudgeon wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Not necessarily true, in Ohio if a car is forfeited to a towing company it gets a salvage title. I currently have a '91 Accord that got a salvage title this way. I'm sure this only happens with older cars though, I can't see anyone forfeiting a $10,000 car.

Here (SC) you don't get a salvage title. I just don't recall what its called.

Um, disagree. The Trooper got nailed from behind last year, the damage exceeded 70% of the value of the vehicle. At that point, the insurance company considers it a total loss. They have to notify the state highway department in the event of a claim being filed. At that point, you can: 1) take the money and give them the car 2) take the money, take a deduction for salvage value and get a salvage title or 3) not file a claim at all. I took Door # 2. I got a sizeable check from the insurance company in exchange for not filing a lawsuit, fixed it a LOT cheaper than the insurance company said but I had to get a salvage title. That's fine; I still have a reliable paid for vehicle that doesn't look like a refugee from a demolition derby. Will it affect sale price, should it come to that? Maybe. But as it stands I have driven it since 2002 and with this check I have already turned a nice profit on it.

I don't think he meant that there's no such thing as a salvage title in SC, I think he just meant that in cases like mine (un-damaged car was forfeited to towing company) the title they give you in SC is not called a salvage title.

That would be nice because there is a significant slice of the population who are knowledgeable enough to know what a salvage title usually means (a car that was crashed, totalled, and repaired) but ignorant enough to automatically avoid ANY salvage titled car.

I've "totalled" a car (would have been an insurance loss, if I had more than just liability) and pieced it together with a donor. Clean title, flawless carfax.

I have a friend whose insurance totalled his Talon after someone keyed it in a HS parking lot.

ShadowSix wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Not necessarily true, in Ohio if a car is forfeited to a towing company it gets a salvage title. I currently have a '91 Accord that got a salvage title this way. I'm sure this only happens with older cars though, I can't see anyone forfeiting a $10,000 car.

Here (SC) you don't get a salvage title. I just don't recall what its called.

Um, disagree. The Trooper got nailed from behind last year, the damage exceeded 70% of the value of the vehicle. At that point, the insurance company considers it a total loss. They have to notify the state highway department in the event of a claim being filed. At that point, you can: 1) take the money and give them the car 2) take the money, take a deduction for salvage value and get a salvage title or 3) not file a claim at all. I took Door # 2. I got a sizeable check from the insurance company in exchange for not filing a lawsuit, fixed it a LOT cheaper than the insurance company said but I had to get a salvage title. That's fine; I still have a reliable paid for vehicle that doesn't look like a refugee from a demolition derby. Will it affect sale price, should it come to that? Maybe. But as it stands I have driven it since 2002 and with this check I have already turned a nice profit on it.

I don't think he meant that there's no such thing as a salvage title in SC, I think he just meant that in cases like mine (un-damaged car was forfeited to towing company) the title they give you in SC is not called a salvage title. That would be nice because there is a significant slice of the population who are knowledgeable enough to know what a salvage title usually means (a car that was crashed, totalled, and repaired) but ignorant enough to automatically avoid ANY salvage titled car.

No flame or wiseguy response intended. The title I got back from the SCDOT has a section headed 'Vehicle Brand(s)' and below that is: Actual mileage Salvage

The 'actual mileage' brand is supposed to indicate an odometer rollback. The transfer of title from Georgia to SC by the previous owner is what triggered that. I worked for Isuzu at the time I bought the truck and verified the mileage through their nationwide record system before I bought it. I went round and round with SCDOT but they refused to budge; I got it so cheap ($2000 for a vehicle valued at $9700!) that it ultimately wasn't worth the battle.

There's plenty of totaled cars with clean titles. It's actually not hard to do at all. I know of one Mustang hatchback which started life as a 4 cyl AT car and wound up a 5 speed GT. The title is clean but the 8th digit indicates that it was originally a 4 banger.

I side note about car fax

I was looking at an 07 F150 FXT a year or 2 back. Had the deal done. I was to come back the following day with a check and take ownership. They were going to do a compete service on the truck.

I came in the next day with the check and I was greated by the owner of the dealership as well as the sales manager. Both whom I have known for many years as my family has purchased cars here since I was a kid. They told me that while the truck was on the lift the surface tech had noticed what appeared to be extensive repairs made to the frame of the truck as well as allot of the sheet metal had been replaced and what appeared to be a complete repaint.

Long / short of it the truck had been in a hard crash and should have been totaled. However it had been repaired with out reporting it to car fax. I don't know how they learned all this but they told me that they had confirmation from the previous owner. The dealer said that due to safety issues they could not sell it to me and they were going to be filing a claim with carfax. Since they did not have another truck on the lot to replace it (or I wanted) they ended up loosing the sale.

They were very nice about it even trying to put me in to a new 150 XLT at there cost plus prep (looking back on it I could have got a screaming deal on a new truck) but it was still more than I wanted to pay. From what they told me CarFax stood by there guarantee and they were taken care of.

I was a bit annoyed as it was a good deal on a truck I really wanted. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I told the dealer as such. They were very nice about it and I have promised that they will make it right when I decide to get another vehicle. I was really aggravated as I had to take off the better part of a day from work and had costs associated with the financing and the registry that I was not able to recover directly. The dealer gave me the equivalent value for the registry costs as a line of credit with the parts and service department. I know it was not the dealers fault but it has tarnished my confidence in them.