I think the key is that cartridge vs canister is less important than the individual design and implementation. There are plenty of both good and bad examples of each.
I think the key is that cartridge vs canister is less important than the individual design and implementation. There are plenty of both good and bad examples of each.
I'm pro cartridge for environmental reasons. The ones I have changed are not bad. I like the top mount ones. I wonder if one day the cartrdige cap and the oil cap will become the same (no oil cap in the valve cover). Better make sure there is no oil pressure when you remove the cap!
Side mount spin on filters are the most annoying. Miata, I'm looking at you. Even if you get them pretty much drained before removal, sometimes you need to pivot them oddly when taking them out like you are solving a 3d puzzle and you'll spill it anyway.
What annoys me is cars that are only designed to have oil changed when oriented flat. Put them on ramps and they dont work.
My Veloster has the drain plug at the front of the oil pan. Oil will run back along the pan and drip onto the top of the undertray if you don't lift the back end while changing the oil.
Saturns have a channel built into the oil pan immediately below the filter that will guide the oil out nicely when you loosen the filter. It doesn't work when its on ramps though, it runs down the filter first and spills all over the halfshaft and engine cradle (which, coincidentally, never rusts in that area).
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In my opinion, if you take the drain plug off of the housing, you're introducing the possibility of a new leak after you put it together. Not touching it means no problems.
The new filter comes with a brand new O-ring for the drain plug as well as the housing. I pop the drain plug to get some oil out in an attempt to make the spill a little smaller when I pull the housing. I tighten the plug to the specified torque, which is about half the value for the housing.
In reply to Jerry From LA :
Yep. And they sometimes leak anyway, because the new O-ring has a dent in it acquired while being kicked around in the box, or a piece of "who knows?" got in there while putting it together. Easiest way to prevent it from happening is to not disturb it.
Heck, I never change the canister O-ring on VW 2.5s. New ones always seem to leak, like they put thr pull tab in the wrong place. If I have to change it because the old one was leaking, I cut the tab off with a razor, which seems to help.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Then again they still make V6s with belts and fixed cam timing, they are nothing if not conservative in their engineering.
Don't think it's them being conservative.
They're probably adopting the same philosophy as the motorcycle division. Why update when people will buy it anyway?
" Besides the 3 gallons of oil the engine took..."
Reminds me of L.O.F'in an early '80s International Harvester Scout with the massive Nissan in-line 6 Diesel. That thing took in a lot of oil (it also had a canister type oil filter). Said Scout was purchased by a major rail road employee when the guy retired. He said that his job entailed inspecting the condition of the tracks for damage/blockage, etc. This vehicle was also capable of mounting railway wheels so that he could actually 'ride the rails'. And he had photos of doing just that (sounds like fun right? Well maybe not). Thing was a bit tricky to start until you got the hang of it.
Mr. Peabody said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:Then again they still make V6s with belts and fixed cam timing, they are nothing if not conservative in their engineering.
Don't think it's them being conservative.
They're probably adopting the same philosophy as the motorcycle division. Why update when people will buy it anyway?
That sounds like conservative engineering to me 
Why take chances on something when they already have a great product?
rslifkin said:Well designed cartridge filters are great. The spin-on on my Jeep is always messy to change, as are the ones on the boat engines. The cartridge filter on the BMW is perfect. When you loosen the lid, the filter gets lifted slightly, which opens a valve that drains the housing back to the oil pan. Pull the old filter out, put in the new one, tighten the cap and it's all done with no mess.
agreed, I love the cartridge filter on my GTI (new) and my e30 (M50). So much less mess.
Worst is the inverted canister filter on my Porsche. There is literally no way for it NOT to spill oil everywhere unless you let it drain overnight or something.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Mr. Peabody said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:Then again they still make V6s with belts and fixed cam timing, they are nothing if not conservative in their engineering.
Don't think it's them being conservative.
They're probably adopting the same philosophy as the motorcycle division. Why update when people will buy it anyway?
That sounds like conservative engineering to me
I would say Toyota is a little worse than Honda. How long has their V6 been around? Like 1000 years?
spandak said:I would say Toyota is a little worse than Honda. How long has their V6 been around? Like 1000 years?
Honda gets the win here. The Honda J engine first came out in 1996 and they're still using an updated version of it. Toyota's current V6 is the GR series, which first came out in 2002.
In reply to rslifkin :
Fair, I concede that. I suppose my bias is from some limited but eye opening experiences. Their interiors feel about a decade older than they are and so do their transmissions. Also in my mind turbo=modern and Honda is doing well at that. I dont think Toyota has put a turbo on anything in 25 years. I dont count the Supra as a Toyota.
In all fairness Toyota had to design a neeer v6. The previous one was pretty bad.
love oil changes on the Rios. Filter and drain next to each other no trays to remove. 3.4qts so even refilling is quick.
VQ came out in 94
Thats ok, the Subaru EJ came out in 1988 and has sucked ever since.
Still, its possible to completely change a motor and still have the same basic architecture, so I wouldn't read into it too much.
ProDarwin said:VQ came out in 94
Thats ok, the Subaru EJ came out in 1988 and has sucked ever since.
Still, its possible to completely change a motor and still have the same basic architecture, so I wouldn't read into it too much.
Like a '55 Chevy 265 vs. a '98 ('02?) Vortec truck engine?
I think the only shared items were the deck height, bore spacing, head bolt pattern, and... maybe the water pump bolt pattern. Everything else changed over the years.
(Oh, and rod LENGTH stayed the same for everything but the 400, but rod journals did change, IIRC)
The Chevy also had a cartridge oil filter, too Somewhere I read that the conversion to spin-on filters had to be done in such a way that the rear main got unfiltered oil, which is why they always look like garbage. Never investigated that for myself.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:The Chevy also had a cartridge oil filter, too
No it didn't 
Mr. Peabody said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:The Chevy also had a cartridge oil filter, too
No it didn't
Well, if it HAD an oil filter, it was a cartridge 
Stuff like that makes me wonder about people who miss "the old days"...
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Mr. Peabody said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:The Chevy also had a cartridge oil filter, too
No it didn't
Well, if it HAD an oil filter, it was a cartridge
Stuff like that makes me wonder about people who miss "the old days"...
I can recall dealing with a cartridge oil filter on my Mom's '67 Impala 283. I hated it. Of course, I changed a lot on cartridge filters on my '60s Triumphs.
In reply to keithedwards :
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19299222.html
In reply to keithedwards :
The joke (on Chevy buyers) is, the filter itself wasn't standard equipment. You could buy a 265-engined whatever with no oil filter at all. If you wanted a filter, that was extra...
OTOH, they MAY have also been still selling inline sixes with splash lube, no oil pump. So having pressure feed oil in itself was extragavant luxury, and filtering the oil was unimaginable decadence.
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