What is the "ultimate" snow traversing build?

If the whole purpose of a build was to go through snow as competently as possible what/how would you be building the project? yes I know snow tires will make anything a competent in winter time but I'm talking ultimate here.

• Are skinny winter tires better than wide winter tires?
• Is extra-weight better than lightweight?
• What's the line between low and stable or getting stuck in drifts?
• Obviously it'll be something with awd/4x4?
• I'd want heated seats and a heated steering wheel would be a plus (side note, what type of heating element is used in a steering wheel?)

I'm thinking ground clearance between underbody is key, the more of that you have the less chance of getting beached you have. I see that Nokian and Bridgestone both offer some 32" diameter snow/winter tire options. they range from 245 up to 285 wide.

I'm stuck on weight as well. It seems you could go either way, more mass to help push you through snow drifts or less mass to have better braking and turning ability?

Short of commuting in a Kristicat what's the most unstuckable way to get to work during the winter? I like the idea of a 4x4 Ford Ranger or Toyota Pickup on 32" Blizzaks bonus points because transmission adapters are available to put a tdi motor in one.

it is always easier to get something light moving from a stop or stopped after moving then it is with a heavier thing. weight distribution is key. I had pick-ups for 20+ years. not as eager to get going (even with all the weight) than a normal car. the idea of weight pushing you down thru the snow is fine, but a heavy tire on ice isn't any better off than a light tire on snow.

just my experience.

Tracks? Matt Tracks or similar for deep stuff.

If your going pickup you will need to get some weight on the rear end. Lockers, locking center diff, good tires. A shovel and maxtrax will be your friends as well.

Snow type makes a huge difference too.

As to tires, tall skinny for large contact patch, and pushing as little as possible (width wise) http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

Well what kind of snow? Is it ice, Colorado type, Midwest (tons but no mountains)? Do they salt or sand? Are you on real roads?

The answer to every one of your questions is "it depends". As a general rule, skinny is better. Extra weight is generally worse than light weight, unless it can't get traction or it rides on top of the drifts. Low and stable vs. getting stuck in drifts depends on the size of the drifts. Yeah, 4x4 or AWD is generally better than FWD which is better than RWD, but my SAAB was better than my dads old Mercedes ML--but the ML had summer tires, so bad comparison.

FWIW, my ideal snow cruiser would be a lifted SAAB with skinny snow tires--unless I needed to go offroad in which case it would be a Tacoma/4Runner/Jeep. But I've gotten through everything this week in Chicago in a TSX on all seasons. Don't blow it out of proportion.

Megadork, it's mostly just all idle ramblings anyways. My Jetta has done perfectly acceptably. This was more of a brain exercise than anything else. I've got some good ideas of what makes a fast auto-x or track car but I have less ideas what makes a competent snow machine.

I hadn't given the tacoma/ranger weight imbalance much consideration, their 4runner/explorer counterparts may be a better option? I was ignoring the XJ as an option since I figured you'd invariably wind up shoving an extra straight axle through the snow while the other IFS options might help out in the blasting through drifts scenario.

Yea a ton of it really depends on exactly what kind of snow you're talking about. Take tires for instance. If we're talking street driving at moderate snow depths, tall and skinny is what's needed to best cut through the deep stuff and find traction on pavement, with lots of siping for traction on hard packed surfaces and ice. If we're talking wheeling through the middle of the woods in 3-4 ft of snow, you're gonna want big and fat tires for flotation, with huge lugs like on an m/t.

For my ideal setup, I think I'd take my XJ, throw ARB air lockers in the front and rear diffs, maybe different tires (thinking 235/85-16 pizza cutters), and otherwise leave it just as is. Last winter we got a storm that dropped about 31" of snow and I drove out of my unplowed gravel driveway, only getting lightly stuck a couple times due to ground clearance. I was pushing a pile of snow that was rolling back up over the hood. That was at stock ride height and on POS, dry rotted 215/60-15 all season car tires. In its current state, lifted 3" on 31" mud terrains, I think I could have driven right out without any drama.

If you just want to be that one guy who is still driving in the middle of a bad snowstorm, I would say that a good set of tire chains on a lifted 4x4 would be hard to beat.

Love me some snow wheeling, I dont think IFS vs sold does a ton, your still dragging the rear axle anyway.

Chains are good in ice, they will help you dig really deep holes in snow....

I have an 03 WRX wagon on 215/60R16 General Grabbers, lifted 2" on Forester suspension, Cobb tune, and an exhaust. Its about perfect. I wish it had heated seats and steering wheel. That would make it perfect.

Had great luck w/ 80's-90 F-150 4X4s. Fav of all was a '90 XLT Lariat w/ the 300-I6, E4OD, 3.55 axle and open diff. Fiberglass cap w/ 250# of sandbags over the rear axle really balanced the truck out traction and turning wise. Always had dedicated snow tires, 15" old style snow tread, 'memba them? (not even found on Google images anymore). I learned to like the open diff on ice, hit ice on the highway and watch the tach rise as one rear wheel was starting to spin. A locked rear woulda pitched it sideways. Later opted for studs on these style tires, live n learn. Defining moment w/ this set-up was pushing snow w/ the front bumper and passing the plow truck over the mountain, never blinked an eye. Really miss those trucks.

Another fav was the '87 AMC Eagle Wagon 4x4 w/ same style 15" studded snow tires. Go anywhere.

Tall n skinny, 215-225s all around depending on vehicle.

Both had ample ground clearance but the trucks had it all over in deeper snow. That '90 XLT could shift into 4-wheel at 65 mph.

Later model stuff has been meh, maybe I'm too old school yet but ya learn to adapt and it gets the job done.

My 1987 XJ Cherokee with 5" of lift, 34x10.50 Super Swamper LTB's with a mini-spool in the Dana 44 was the most amazing snow machine I've ever seen.

Simply amazing.

In reply to ebonyandivory:

I've been eying a Spartan Locker on Craigslist all week for the sole purpose of snow hooning.

(Snickering in the corner of the room). He just called mtn "megadork". This makes my Night.

You could do like I'm doing and start with a car and raised it just a little. Realistically you don't need a ton of height. As long as you're not trying to build a ZIL-2906, be reasonable.

As I discovered in my 1988 Suburban, a heavy wheel takes a long time to start rolling again if you lock it on snow/ice. Meanwhile, you're off the brake but still have no traction. Lightweight wheel/tire combination helps.

Go to Expedition Portal and find out what the people that actually do what you are talking about drive.

I would think lighter is better, but you want and very large/wide tires. The better your car is at driving on top of the snow/ice, the less you are limited by clearance issues and by how deep the snow may be. For "ultimate" the snow may have a nearly unlimited depth (although it will be compressed into ice at some point).

Regardless of the car, it seems to me that a good skidplate helps a bit. Especially if it tucks right under the front of the bumper.

Oh, and for the ultimate snow-traversing build, tracks would have to be involved. Spreading the weight of the vehicle out so you can ride on top, as noted above, would be key. Balloon tires are a second best option

I keep saying this: Autosocks. They pull harder than chains, go on in five minutes, and won't wrap around the axle. I bought two sets for my '96 F-150 4wd with Cooper Weathermasters. After the 2wd testing I did, I can't imagine what it would take to stick it with the front axle helping.

1978 Dodge Ramcharger with a slant-six, full-time 4WD, a sure grip rear, and whatever winter tires you can get in a 235/80-16.

The Powertrax locker or Spartan lockers are good options.

I remember 15 inch snow tires - Farm and Fleet in WI had the best deal in the area I lived in. We'd also even use 235/75/15 all terrain tires if they fit. Best snow tires I recall having were called "Snow Kings" - from Firestone.

I would favor a Chevy ZR2 or GMC Highrider S10. They came with 31's, 3.73 locking rear, skid plates, 4wd, 4.3 Vortec V6, Bilstein shocks. Ext Cab. The 98 models up had 4 wheel disc brakes.

Then add heated seats if not available

On here, that would be this.

Kristi KT-3 snowcat restomod

And it is awesome. I can't imagine not wanting to commute in something like that. At least as long as you didn't need to go too far.

I remember those tires. Only if they happen to be the tire of choice on every dierelect 1960's jeeps everywhere.

Now for a snow rig? I'd say the easy button is a lifted Subaru wagon.

I once ran an 85 RX7 for a winter beater to keep my 78 CJ7 off the road. With proper tires and weight distribution it was a blast, my friends called it the snowmobile. Only good for up to 4-5 inches of snow but very confidence inspiring.

After that I ran an E30 M3 with pizza cutters, that also worked well.

Then came the Jeep Wagoneers, they would go through anything just make sure they are pointed in the right direction because once all that weight gets moving there is no going back.

Back to a BMW with an E34 525i with fat blizzaks, my personal favorite. Smooth engine for traction great weight distribution, not too heavy, not too low.

All winter cars should be rear or AWD, there is nothing worse that trying to steer with the driving wheels in the snow, slush or ice. Also manual trans is a plus, just more control of the flow of power, super critical when stopping. To get my van to stop on ice I have to bump it into neutral.

So I prefer RWD manual with snow tires and a balanced chassis but not too heavy.

Trackmouse wrote: (Snickering in the corner of the room). He just called mtn "megadork". This makes my Night. You could do like I'm doing and start with a car and raised it just a little. Realistically you don't need a ton of height. As long as you're not trying to build a ZIL-2906, be reasonable.

Wow, total rookie mistake on my part lol "megadork" I even thought "wow that's weird that it says MTN in front of that, oh well"

The lifted car route is where I'm at right now, mk4 tdi, 2" lift, taller than stock size tires and a skid plate.

It goes through far more than needed for my commute but I wouldn't say it's the "ultimate" as it does struggle with drifts and such when my brother and law and I go play in the unplowed areas after snow storms.

Here in MI there's not enough snow to really worry about building something specifically for winter but it's a fun brain exercise.