What is your permanent air line garage solution and why?

1988RedT2 wrote:

APEowner wrote: As proven by the number of people who are getting away with using them, PVC airlines aren't a certain death certificate. However, multiple health and safety organizations and governing bodies as well as every manufacturer of PVC piping expressly prohibit it. The problem isn't so much that it's guaranteed to fail it's that if it does fail it will do so in a way that can kill you. https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20202 http://www.usplastic.com/knowledgebase/article.aspx?contentkey=787

I'm a little surprised by the folks defending the use of PVC in compressed air applications. It's clearly the wrong material. http://www.lascofittings.com/compressed-air-and-pvc

That's a good link, I'll have to save it for future discussions on this topic. You can go to the websites for most any PVC pipe manufacturer and they will warn against its use with compressed air.

I've personally seen PVC lines explode and agree it's not pretty. The shards will fly all over and stick in the walls, you don't want to be in the way if it happens.

People point at the pressure rating of PVC, but that rating is for use with liquids and not with compressible gases.

There used to be an ABS pipe that was rated for compressed air use but I believe that product is no longer offered for sale.

BrokenYugo wrote: In reply to 1988RedT2: Cheap and easy is a powerful motivator in virtually all aspects of life.

That's how I ended up with the ex.

stuart in mn wrote: There used to be an ABS pipe that was rated for compressed air use but I believe that product is no longer offered for sale.

It was bright green and didn't glue for E36 M3. It was pretty cheap and as long as you ran tek screws at all the glued joints it held up well. I installed 500 feet of it for the first phase of a new equipment installation and two months later I went back for more and was told it no longer existed.

I waffled over just using plumbing PEX in the shop since it doesn't have the same type of failure mode as PVC and it's both cheap and easy to work with. Right about as I was ready to pull the trigger TSC had the rapidair 1/2" sets on sale for under $50 each and I bought two. So far I have a loop around the top of the garage with a drop to the tire machine in one corner and the hose reel in the other, plus a couple of drops for outside fittings. I figured by doing a loop of the 1/2" it would offer up a bit less resistance to flow, since it had two paths from the compressor to the drop being used, without costing the $ the 3/4" line costs.

Black and galvanized pipe should last decades if installed properly. Pitched, dirt leg at user drop end w/ blowdown ball valve, filter/ separator teed before every dirt leg. Steel pipe gets a bad rap because of condensation, rust and so called flaking. This is nothing more than of a case of negligence. Pipe will sweat even when not in use. Drops should be blown down before any use. Daily or every shift in production use. Again, filter/ separator at every drop.

Over 30 years in production plants that ran on air, 5-10K scfm typical output with chiller/ air dehumidifier. One all black pipe, the other had galvanized 2" drops from the 6" black loop, there really isn't any difference in the grand scheme of things. As long as they're blown down regularly there shouldn't be a problem.... but who does that, it's called berkeleying lazy.

Last plant used plastic pipe w/ push fittings for anything 1/2" OD or under on production lines, works great. Wouldn't hesitate to use it in the next garage build.

I piped my 24 x 28 garage w/ black pipe 20 yrs. ago, it's still good but really don't need all that w/ 150' of air hoses on hand. A HF hose reel should simplify winding up air hose, maybe w/ the new garage. Reelcraft hose reels are the tits but kinda pricey.

Unless a light industrial or commercial application why would you bother w/ all the piping. One pipe manifold of your choice material the length of one wall and use hose reels or air hoses to reach the job.

Ain't all that... or is it?

I did copper because I was given enough lengths of copper to complete the entire job. Just had to buy elbows and fittings.

The air runs around the perimeter of the shop at the ceiling, sloping about 4" over 50'. Every drop T's off the top to keep the water in the main run. Every drop extends below the fitting to a ball valve to drain any moisture in the leg. The last leg is drain only.

Not sure I'm sold on the satin and clear-coated copper look, but it made sense at the time.

25 years ago the place i worked bought a new building the boss had me take out 5 year old 3/4 black iron and replumb with copper... I took the iron home and did my garage and then some. 10 ft hose drops every 4 feet. still going strong.

Curmudgeon ran 3/4 galvanized when he built my shop with the compressor out behind the shop. I relocated the compressor and abandoned all of that. I have a 75' hose reel mounted by the compressor. It will reach everywhere in my 26 x 26 shop and half way down the driveway.

I had thought about building an enclosure outside the shop to house the compressor and then running black piping to the inside and along two walls of the shop. Instead I ave a 60 gallon, max 150 psi compressor in the corner of my small shop. I bought a large filter/water separator and mounted it on the wall where it is easy to drain and connected it to the compressor with 1" inch red rubber hose maybe a run of 4 feet. I run my hose right from the filter setup. I have a I have two 25 foot rubber hoses that can be connected together if I need the length but most time one hose is all I need. Unless you have a large shop or multiple people working at the same time I'm not sure at least for me having multiple places to hook up a hose is needed. I also have a ball valve on the bottom of the compressor that makes draining the tank very easy. Water in the tank is the major source for water in the lines, le

Black iron is what we have at work. 26 years old with no big issues. Has drains in each leg. Filter/seperators before each pump.

stuart in mn wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote:

APEowner wrote: As proven by the number of people who are getting away with using them, PVC airlines aren't a certain death certificate. However, multiple health and safety organizations and governing bodies as well as every manufacturer of PVC piping expressly prohibit it. The problem isn't so much that it's guaranteed to fail it's that if it does fail it will do so in a way that can kill you. https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20202 http://www.usplastic.com/knowledgebase/article.aspx?contentkey=787

I'm a little surprised by the folks defending the use of PVC in compressed air applications. It's clearly the wrong material. http://www.lascofittings.com/compressed-air-and-pvc

That's a good link, I'll have to save it for future discussions on this topic. You can go to the websites for most any PVC pipe manufacturer and they will warn against its use with compressed air. I've personally seen PVC lines explode and agree it's not pretty. The shards will fly all over and stick in the walls, you don't want to be in the way if it happens. People point at the pressure rating of PVC, but that rating is for use with liquids and not with compressible gases. There used to be an ABS pipe that was rated for compressed air use but I believe that product is no longer offered for sale.

People defend it because either they've gotten away with using it or they know someone who has. If it blew up in your face and killed you as soon as you pressurized it then nobody would even think about doing it. Instead it works just fine until it doesn't due to one of the many things that can degrade or damage it and then it explodes. As my dad was inspired to tell me many times as I was growing up (or at least getting older); Just because you've gotten away with something in the past that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I use extension cords.

Seriously, I just buy electric tools instead of air tools.

APEowner wrote: As my dad was inspired to tell me many times as I was growing up (or at least getting older); Just because you've gotten away with something in the past that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Yes, this is exactly the kind of reasoning that killed everyone on board both Columbia and Challenger. NASA had gotten away with ignoring things they knew to be safety problems for years, eventually it caught up with them.

Robbie wrote: I use extension cords. Seriously, I just buy electric tools instead of air tools.

It's hard to fill a tire with electrons. :)

The company I work at has a shop that ,as long as I've worked there ( going on 28 years), we have used truck DOT air line tubing. Easy to run and easy to fix if you melt it with splatter from welding or cutting, or if something falls against it. Never had one blow apart.

I used black pipe.

cheap, safe, readily available everywhere, & was easy enough to deal with that even I could put a leak-free effective circuit together.

seems like a no brainer.

In reply to SkinnyG:

Copper is the standard spec for the house-air systems in the pharma facilities I generally work with. It's pretty cool seeing 4" diameter main lines coming off a 100HP 480V compressor (usually two or three in series for capacity and redundancy). There are also huge desiccant driers and giant holding tanks.

If you really want to spend some money, the process air lines are all welded stainless steel. Those are gorgeous.

That is always the amusing contradiction for me when I design and work on systems for my own house - the difference between residential and general commercial systems vs. the much higher build-budget facilities we engineer/design every day. My ex- (pharma/lab specialized HVAC engineer) was the same way when we did her house. In 50 years after we're gone, someone will be renovating her house and go, "damn... someone over-engineered the crap out of this place..."

For my own garage, I'll probably just go with a Rapidair set-up.

My compressor is on the 2nd floor my 80 gallon tank is down stairs between the two garage doors. Every part was sourced for free or darn close. Motor was in need of a capacitor and bearings so a customer was tossing it out...right in to my work van. Another replaces one compressor each year around the reality park again they toss'em I was able to pick one out of the dumpster that night... The tank came from a dental office that was getting a whole new system a friends wife told me about it so i swung over and asked the contractor if i could have the old tank (It's a nice real tank with cert tag etc) the motor and compressor float on I beams sourced from the road side when guard rails were being replaced. the I beams ride on old 383 Mopar valve springs. It all was hard plumbed but recently i added a 5 inch flex line. it had no auto on / off switch for years but i got tired of getting up so now theres a $18 switch from surplus center...25 years still going strong with black iron. It's not being cheap its being resourceful and recycling frugality. :)

codrus wrote:

Robbie wrote: I use extension cords. Seriously, I just buy electric tools instead of air tools.

It's hard to fill a tire with electrons. :)

More precisely, it's really hard to let any of the electrons out of the tire.

I do have a small air compressor that sits at the door of the garage. I can carry it anywhere if needed for air.

Still easier but more time consuming is the bike pump. Which honestly, I find myself using more than the air compressor.