The 'stang looks good on paper (I've never driven the new one, but I've driven several older ones and I liked them). Only issue is that I know I'd have to order one as opposed to drive one off the lot and I don't think I'm ready for a brand new car (the deprecation scares me).
Javelin wrote: GTO /thread. Best car GM ever made, the easiest factory LS1 car to work on, IRS, Ozzie build quality, gorgeous interior, completely invisible to 99% of people, and the "right" amount of power to weight. Get the 05/06 for the larger brakes and snazzier looks, or the 04 for the old school throttle cable and understated good-looks. With either one you can easily update/backdate the looks or convert to a Holden.
The GTO might as well be a 2-seater. Rear seat access is absolutely terrible.
I'm a BMW guy, so for newish momentum car, I'd say CPO 328i or 128i
I bought a 2006 RX-8 this year as a daily driver. They are getting very, very cheap and still have an 8 year engine warranty, so even a 2006 has a few years of warranty left. I found the lowest spec version I could, no sunroof, cloth seats, nice and light. It really is a modern momentum car. I have 2 little kids and they fit in the back very nicely in their child seats. Access to the back seats is actually easier than in our 2009 Impreza, my wife was shocked!
I took it to the track once for a time attack this summer when my 944 Turbo was in pieces in my garage. I didn't want to miss any of our short track season. The guys had a good laugh since I kept the child seats in the back! It was VERY easy to drive quickly, you have to keep the revs up obviously (way up, over 6000 at all times) and carry lots of speed through turns, but it is very forgiving and predictable and easy to get back into line when things go pear shaped.
If I didn't need the back seats, I'd vote for the Z3/Z4 Coupe, I love those things!
2002maniac wrote: I'm a BMW guy, so for newish momentum car, I'd say CPO 328i or 128i
This. BMWs CPO warranty is the best there is IMO, and the cars are nice to drive. A 328i isn't that fast in a straight line but it won't put you to sleep either, and they turn very nicely. Most of them are equipped with xdrive awd around here at least. Ditch the run flats for real snows and real summer tires and have fun. I don't like the 1-series cars, they are mechanically the same as the 3s and weight about the same but with smaller interiors. The 1M OTOH is lotsa fun (drove pne yesterday) but $50k and good luck finding one. If you don't care about warranty find the newest lowest mile E46 328xiT 5-speed you can and rock the practical wagon. As the guy who had one at my last track day said, it's way easier to fit the track wheels in one :-)
2002maniac wrote:Javelin wrote: GTO /thread. Best car GM ever made, the easiest factory LS1 car to work on, IRS, Ozzie build quality, gorgeous interior, completely invisible to 99% of people, and the "right" amount of power to weight. Get the 05/06 for the larger brakes and snazzier looks, or the 04 for the old school throttle cable and understated good-looks. With either one you can easily update/backdate the looks or convert to a Holden.The GTO might as well be a 2-seater. Rear seat access is absolutely terrible.
Disagree. The bad part is that the passenger seat goes forward with the motor to let you in, so it takes a while, but I carried a 6+ footer and another guy back there before. Granted, nothing beats the RX8 on rear seat room on this list yet, but the GTO isn't that bad.
I am thinking that if the vette and viper are death in snow.. that the GTO is not far behind
"momentum-ish" 
giggily giggily
Deal with the FWD and buy my MS3 so i can worry about this same thing lol
Lexus IS300? Slimmer and more fun to drive than a 3er from that era, momentum car, manual available here but somewhat rarer than the automatic.
Acura TSX? Same deal but FWD.
A Cali/Texas Civic with a strong D (VTEC) or a B16 makes a fun momentum car too, but you'd have to go through it all the way. 500/400 springs over Koni or Bilstein shocks, a new Rywire harness if necessary, every bushing in the car replaced along with the axles, some sort of limited-slip, a Fidanza flywheel and light clutch, Hawk pads on new Honda rotors, a pipe that doesn't sound like it would leave a stain in its shorts would just about do the trick. Figure $3k including the 100-ton press for the bearings and bushings plus the car. It's not a project car if you do it as an "outpatient" procedure - buy all the parts and tools beforehand and do it all in a weekend.
Do the same rebuilding to an e30/e36 318i or 325i and you're pretty close to a four-door Miata.
mad_machine wrote: I am thinking that if the vette and viper are death in snow.. that the GTO is not far behind
This is bull. With good snows and a good driver, any car is fine in the snow. I've certainly driven worse.
The RX8 seems to fit your description quite well. They make pretty decent daily drivers if you make sure you pick up a good example. The RX8 can be a fantastic car, however, they're quickly turned into nightmares if they haven't been maintained.
The GTO seems to fit your descriptions as well but it's definitely not a momentum car. It's more of a point-and-shoot type of car. Either way, these are BOTH very good choices for you.
All the other cars in this thread have been pretty good suggestions as well. As far as not wanting a point-and-shootish type of car because you think it will make it harder for you hone your driving skills, don't worry about it. Driving a point-and-shoot car is actually very hard on technical courses and it'll teach you just as much as a momentum car would if you really focus on hitting the apex, modulating your throttle and breaking, heel-and-toeing, etc... instead of just hammering down straights and getting sloppy on the turns.
chaparral wrote: Lexus IS300? Slimmer and more fun to drive than a 3er from that era, momentum car, manual available here but somewhat rarer than the automatic.
Does the IS300 drive anything like the IS250? I test drove an IS250 and it was clear that it was made for people that despise driving.
The IS300 is actually still a driver's car, you would be pleasantly surprised... the IS250 became more of an appliance.
The Mazda Mazdaspeed3 is pretty solid. Good aftermarket for it, moderately easy to work on, comes in at or under 20k around here for one with less than 20k miles, and pretty fun to drive.
Bonus is that an exhaust and tuner will net you close to 280+ WHP (for at or less than a grand no less) and still get 30+ mpg if you can keep your foot out of it. Also they're pretty much indistinguishable from the standard hatch so it won't be a cop magnet.
Downside is the FWD but its still pretty much the best thing in its category.
tuna55 wrote:mad_machine wrote: I am thinking that if the vette and viper are death in snow.. that the GTO is not far behindThis is bull. With good snows and a good driver, any car is fine in the snow. I've certainly driven worse.
My grandfather had a late 80's XJS. In the winter, as you started to lift off the brake, the rear wheels would begin to slowly rotate before the fronts were unlocked. Since it had an LSD, both rears would spin. The front wheels wouldn't move but the back would start going downhill. I don't care how good a driver you are, that was a pretty poor snow car.
My first thought was a lower-engined 3 series.
I'd 2nd the RX-8...
Have you thought of a Solstice or Sky? Those are the only true American RWD momentum cars that I can think of that were made in the past few years.
I keep hoping for an American RWD 5 door the size of a 1 Series... One can dream, right?
scardeal wrote: I'd 2nd the RX-8... Have you thought of a Solstice or Sky? Those are the only true American RWD momentum cars that I can think of that were made in the past few years. I keep hoping for an American RWD 5 door the size of a 1 Series... One can dream, right?
Have you driven a Solstice or Sky? They really don't "feel" the part.
rotard wrote: Have you driven a Solstice or Sky? They really don't "feel" the part.
Only in my Forza dreams. What do you mean by "feeling" the part?
Chassis communication and steering feel.
scardeal wrote:rotard wrote: Have you driven a Solstice or Sky? They really don't "feel" the part.Only in my Forza dreams. What do you mean by "feeling" the part?
Thanks for all the comments. After a couple of days away, I've had a bit more time to think:
Has anybody taken an E46 330xi on the track? They turn up quite regularly out here.
scardeal wrote: I keep hoping for an American RWD 5 door the size of a 1 Series... One can dream, right?
V8 swap a ZX5. That said I found the back seat of 1st gen Foci worthless for passengers if the driver is over 5'6"... ZX3 and ditch the rear seat?
If you're going to go with an E46 330i, don't get it with the AWD. The RWD version will do just fine with proper snow tires and it'll be a better performer on the track as well.
Honestly, if you can pick up an RX8 that a) checks out fine at an independent rotary shop or b) has all the service records, I'd go for that. A running RX8 is the bargain of the decade as far as momentum cars go.
BMW E36 / 46. Seriously. With a set of Nokian Hakkapeliittas my old M3 was among the most balanced and surefooted snow cars I've owned. (The others were my wife's 325 XiT which is just unstoppable, and a 98 Outback). Until the M3's splitter became a snow plow it was just amazing. At stock ride height... 6" is about the limit but most snow driving is less than that or after the plow goes thru and you just need traction on the 1-2" hard pack.
I agree that the e36 is great in the snow. Even running worn summer tyres, I was able to get my 318ti through 6 inches of snow when I got caught out in the beginnings of "snowmagedden" a couple of years ago.
The LSD helped a LOT.
If you get an e36.. get an early 96 or earlier as those were availible with an LSD as part of the "Winter package" (also comes with heated seats) after that.. only the M cars got the limited slip.
As an aside, swapping an LSD into a later car with traction control is supposedly a match made in heaven. You get the sure footedness of the LSD, but when things do get bad, the traction control kicks in
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