What sales will the new Corvette cannibalize?

Let's go with over its first three years.

(The first year is sold out yet?)

Will it be hotter Cadillacs?  

The new Supra?

The classic car market such as the recent auction discussed in another thread?  ( Probably 1st year examples doing that.)

Or will it just take a little from each market ( including ones not noted here such as Porkers/NSX/etc.etc.)

Will any manufacturer/market be grossly affected?

I'm guessing that Chevrolet are already crunching some numbers from pre-sales.

Finally I did see something about Cadillacs boss or another higher-up saying one of their engines was not for sharing to keep some uniqueness to the brand. 

Well, for a different point of view.

When Dodge made the Viper, they were initially competing with the Corvette.

They stopped bothering when they realized that the kind of people who bought Vipers ALSO bought Corvettes.  They weren't in competition after all.  So they focused on making potential Viper owners happy instead of trying to make potential Corvette buyers happy.

Sales of people who would have bought corvettes anyhow. 

I think it's funny it would "cannibalize the new Supra" before that car has been on sale for more than 5 minutes. I somehow don't think they really have that much overlap in terms of prospective buyers. Most of the peopel who bought the previous generation of Supras weren't cross-shopping with Corvettes then.

The new vette is certainly different, but it's still a Corvette. People didn't "not" buy the old Corvette because it wasn't high-performance enough, or because it was too expensive, or whatever. People who bought other things did so because they didn't like Corvettes, didn't like the style, preferred something German, or something Japanese, or something AWD, or something turbo. I don't think that's going to change substantially with the new one.

Just my 2 cents. I'm probably right in the age/income demographic for corvette (little do they know, none of that income is expendable!!!) , but I can't say I've ever really been interested in one (including the new one).  Not because they aren't great cars or because I don't think they're pretty damn cool......, just because I don't really want a corvette, for whatever reason. 

nutherjrfan said:Finally I did see something about Cadillacs boss or another higher-up saying one of their engines was not for sharing to keep some uniqueness to the brand. 

Caddy has always been that way.  The closest that GM has ever come to putting a Caddy engine in another car was the 4 liter in the Aurora, which was based on the Northstar but wasn't really a Northstar.

They even used their on engines in the XLR.  (XLR engines are actually pretty cheap to buy used, because nobody cares about them, but the really cheap ones have a PCM that hasn't been hacked, and there was a crank sensor change when they went to the PCM that ultimately was hacked...)

In reply to Knurled. :  Not so fast my friend.  2005 Pontiac Bonneville GXP - one year only the Northstar was available in the top trim H-Body.  Had a woody for one of these for quite a while, still think about getting one every now and then.  

Of course, this was the end of the line for both the H-body and near the end for the Northstar, so it was a sort of swan song for the Bonneville if you will.

I mentioned this in another thread, but having a separate thread for this topic is more appropriate.

While I think it's premature to speculate about this, since there hasn't even been a road test performed on the new Vette, I'm pretty confident GM did their homework, and really knocked it out of the park.  Not only does the new Vette check all the performance boxes, and finally comes in the dominant supercar layout, but it looks like GM took care of not only the major Corvette weaknesses (a cheap interior, and the less-than-optimal transverse leaf springs), but having a clean slate gave them the opportunity to address a lot of other, far more expensive mid-engine car issues, such as annoyingly wide door sills to step over.  Throw in some cool new tech, like the nose-raising feature, and the uniqueness of a high-torque, large displacement, low CoG pushrod engine, all offered at an amazing price, and to me, it has all the makings of a car that could potentially pull a lot of sales away from everything from the $500K Ford GT to the new Supra, and a bunch of McLarens, Lamborghinis, Ferraries, NSX's, Mercedes GTs, and 911's in between.

And this is coming from someone who's never been a "Corvette guy" - for all it's brilliance, it's just a little too big for my taste.  My all-time favorite Vette is the 1956-57 body style, all 168/70 inches of length/width and 2859 pounds of it (which, coincidentally, are all very close to those of my Porsche 968 track toy).  But most modern sports cars with supercar ambitions are on the large and heavy side, so the new Vette fits right in, so to speak.  Other than "exclusivity", and the desire for a particular character trait (such as a screaming flat-plane crank V8 or H6), I'm struggling with why anyone wouldn't at least consider the new Vette as an alternative to pretty much any high end sports car, regardless of price.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

06HHR said:

In reply to Knurled. :  Not so fast my friend.  2005 Pontiac Bonneville GXP - one year only the Northstar was available in the top trim H-Body.  Had a woody for one of these for quite a while, still think about getting one every now and then.  

Of course, this was the end of the line for both the H-body and near the end for the Northstar, so it was a sort of swan song for the Bonneville if you will.

The what now?

I thought those had LS3s.

In reply to Knurled. :

You would think they would have, but that was the W-body Grand Prix GXP.  Under the skin the Bonneville was the sister to the Buick LeSabre and shared most of the platform bits with the larger G-body Deville (llater known as DTS).  I seem to rember that the Buick Lacrosse was available with either the LS3 of the Northstar for a model year or two.

EDIT:  Just checked the wikis, it was the Lucerne that got the Northstar,  it was actually built on the same line as the DTS.

From the C&D review for that car: In its place is the milder form of the best engine in GM’s holdings — the Northstar 4.6L DOHC V8. Its 275 h.p.and 300 ft.-lb. of torque finally add some needed cojones to the throaty rumble emanating from the performance-tuned dual exhausts.

Back on subject, I don't see it stealing any sales except maybe an odd Cayman/Boxster guy. 

The Supra will be JDM guys. That's really the only reason to buy those. It's not going to convince a die hard 911 guy to jump the fence. I mean what would their buddies at the PCA meetings say? It will possibly get a top line Camaro guy to jump up. Mostly, You will see the same 60-70+ driver that utilizes 20% of it's performance while they cruise to breakfast. 

In reply to bmw88rider :

Yeah, sad to say (or maybe not) this will be a bucket list car for a lot of folks, much like the current one is.  I hope to have enough loot in my retirement portfolio to get one while my knees and hips are still working.   Or, hope my knees and hips are still working when it's time to retire..  

In reply to Knurled. :

Ls4 right?

06HHR said:

In reply to Knurled. :  Not so fast my friend.  2005 Pontiac Bonneville GXP - one year only the Northstar was available in the top trim H-Body.  Had a woody for one of these for quite a while, still think about getting one every now and then.  

Of course, this was the end of the line for both the H-body and near the end for the Northstar, so it was a sort of swan song for the Bonneville if you will.

Were those the ones that had larger tires on the front than the rear?

In reply to GCrites80s :

Those were the Grand Prix GXP with the 5.3.  I think the Impala SS was set up the same as well.  This guy

Didn't help that pontiacs all looked alike back then, even the GTO.

This thread made me look at v8 gm sedans and I remembered the Chevy SS.  You can find them with a manual too....  the past of the muscle cars?  You can’t get a Charger with a manual.  Lighter and better handling too and LS power.....  

Maybe that’s what I need for the big 50.

Knurled. said:

nutherjrfan said:Finally I did see something about Cadillacs boss or another higher-up saying one of their engines was not for sharing to keep some uniqueness to the brand. 

Caddy has always been that way.  The closest that GM has ever come to putting a Caddy engine in another car was the 4 liter in the Aurora, which was based on the Northstar but wasn't really a Northstar.

 

They even used their on engines in the XLR.  (XLR engines are actually pretty cheap to buy used, because nobody cares about them, but the really cheap ones have a PCM that hasn't been hacked, and there was a crank sensor change when they went to the PCM that ultimately was hacked...)

Oldsmobile actually designed and developed the northstar engine.

A friend and I were talking about this the other night. I don't think the new Corvette will steal sales from the big exotics. The people buying a new Mclaren, Ferrari or Lamborghini are not really cross shopping Corvette's. They buy those cars because they can. I could maybe see cross shopping with the Caymen/Boxter, NSX. In my opinion the new Corvette is going to hurt the used exotic market. The person that has saved for years for something mid engined and can only afford the 50-75 grand for a 15 or 20 year old Ferrari etc.. That's the person who is going to see this as a valid alternative. 

Lotus Elise/Exige, Porsche Cayman/911, BMW i8, new NSX, new Supra, probably some of the lower-end supercars.

In reply to 06HHR :

Man I saw one of these in a junkyard. I tried to walk away like 3 times but kept walking back, I was so confused. Some type of FWD Pontiac with a V8 in it, but it wasn't an LS or the weird Aurora engine.

I wouldn't have guessed it was a N*

Most of the peopel who bought the previous generation of Supras weren't cross-shopping with Corvettes then.

The thought of someone comparing a 1993 Supra to a 1993 Corvette is kinda funny. How times have changed! Now it's funny in the other direction.  

In reply to Opti:

It was a semi big deal back in 2004/5.  But since the platform was a lame duck the hype died quickly, but they buff books who tested the car when new gave it pretty good reviews.  I really wanted one when they came out but they were out of my league financially so I settled for an HHR.   Ironically, a deal on a 1996 Bonneville SSEi (supercharged 3.8) fell into my lap a few years after so I got to scratch my big car itch for cheap.  H-bodys can eat up some interstate, especially with a little boost.  I would still have that car but i got tired of chasing down NLA interior pieces, so when my kid finally killed the 3.8 i sent it on it's way, i miss it sometimes.  If there was one of these for sale with the N* anywhere close to me I would buy it, but they are rare in my neck of the woods. 

Cannibalize to me usually means talking sales away from from another product your company makes. GM had a 2020 Corvette on display at the Monterey Historics last weekend where you could walk up and touch it. Seeing one in person here are my thoughts.

1. Inside and out, it looks even better in person than in pictures.

2. In design, build and materials, it looks world class. I have never wanted a new Corvette until I saw this one.

3. I don't see it cannibalizing anything.  I don't think GM has anything else like it in the product portfolio.       

Papabear said:

A friend and I were talking about this the other night. I don't think the new Corvette will steal sales from the big exotics. The people buying a new Mclaren, Ferrari or Lamborghini are not really cross shopping Corvette's. They buy those cars because they can. I could maybe see cross shopping with the Caymen/Boxter, NSX. In my opinion the new Corvette is going to hurt the used exotic market. The person that has saved for years for something mid engined and can only afford the 50-75 grand for a 15 or 20 year old Ferrari etc.. That's the person who is going to see this as a valid alternative. 

That's a really good point about the new Corvette stealing sales from used exotics.

bmw88rider said:

 

The Supra will be JDM guys. That's really the only reason to buy those. It's not going to convince a die hard 911 guy to jump the fence. I mean what would their buddies at the PCA meetings say? 

"Nice Z4", I'm guessing.  :p

As a current celica and skyline owner, and former miata/mr2/other jdm classics, I have zero interest in an automatic, i-drive equipped "supra".  I'm more interested in an LC500 from toyotas current lineup.  

In reply to Type Q :

"1. Inside and out, it looks even better in person than in pictures.

2. In design, build and materials, it looks world class. I have never wanted a new Corvette until I saw this one."

La lala la la, I can't hear you.....

Or I *shouldn't*

I don’t think this car will steal away anyone buying a 500000$ exotic. That’s like saying seiko takes sales away from Rolex. People buy those because they are expensive, not because they are a good deal. 

All this makes me wonder, though, why is the ford get as expensive as it is??