In reply to Tyler H:
Neighbors are a good distance away, will be using a sound box, we don't often lose power, we will use just enough to save our food and keep our daughters nebulizer working.
This generator is NOT intended to let us live like Al Gore in one of his fully lit-up mansions.
You could make up a fairly long heavy gauge (30+ amp) cord with a twistlock on one end and a sub panel with breakers and outlets (use conduit and metal boxes) on the other. Then you have all your outlets and breakers inside and can easily run cords through the house to power the mission critical stuff.
The way a lot of those generators are wired internally, you can only pull their full output from the 240 outlet anyways, as it gives you both 120 volt windings (240 between them).
Also, if it isn't set up this way already, setup your furnace so it can be plugged in.
My own plan is to install an outlet by my generator on the outside wall. A matching outlet on the inside wall. A foot of wire joining the two.
Run a short cord from the generator to the outside outlet and I've got fully isolated power inside the house at one outlet box.
Next step is to rewire the well pump and furnace to have plugs, and locate them near the generators inside outlet.
Power goes out, i unplug the well and furnace from the house wiring and plug them into the generator outlet. Everything is isolated.
When the lights turn on, I'd go back downstairs, unplug from the generator and plug back into line power.
It sounds good to me. Others with more code and legal experience may differ. Hopefully they would explain why.
That said, I've had the generator for two years now, and still haven't done this. But thats largely because the generator is performing its primary task superbly, ensuring the power never goes out in the first place.
foxtrapper wrote: That said, I've had the generator for two years now, and still haven't done this. But thats largely because the generator is performing its primary task superbly, ensuring the power never goes out in the first place.
I'm sure if/when I go through the hassle of installing a generator at my house, I'll never lose power. Not that it happens all that often to begin with, due to where I live and the redundancy of the distribution system.
Improperly wired generators kill firemen.
Ian F wrote:foxtrapper wrote: That said, I've had the generator for two years now, and still haven't done this. But thats largely because the generator is performing its primary task superbly, ensuring the power never goes out in the first place.I'm sure if/when I go through the hassle of installing a generator at my house, I'll never lose power. Not that it happens all that often to begin with, due to where I live and the redundancy of the distribution system.
I lost power for over a week once. I built a 10kw diesel generator soon after that. I haven't lost power for more than a hour or two since. I built the generator almost 20 years ago. I've still got it. I'm sure if I ever sell it another hurricane will devastate our area. I consider it to be much like a vaccine. If you have it, you don't need it.
The Hoff wrote: Instead of using multiple extension cords to various appliances you can just use one cord with a male outlet on both sides. If power goes out turn off the main breaker(so no surge when power comes back on). Plug the cord from the generator in to an outlet and turn off all the breakers to all non-essential circuits. This way the generator will back feed in to only the needed circuits.
A main circuit disconnect is required by law actually. This is not only for convenience to you, but to protect the rest of the grid. Not disconnecting the main will do two things: 1- attempt to power everyone else in the neighborhood, and 2- potentially kill the lineman who comes to fix the power lines.
I also suggest a simple, safer solution like we did here; add an outside twist-lock plug. That way you don't have an exposed male cord with juice in it. You can then run 240v (both legs to the opposite sides of the panel) and power everything. Of course I only have an 6500w generator as well and that won't run everything so I have to be careful of running high-draw items at the same time.
Ours was retrofitted with an approved main breaker. The main for the utility service and the main for the generator breaker is connected by a bar that allows only one to be on at any given time. I'm not saying you will get caught if you don't have that, I will say that I personally don't really want to live with the thought of zapping some poor lineman because I forgot to do one before the other.
Ian F wrote:foxtrapper wrote: That said, I've had the generator for two years now, and still haven't done this. But thats largely because the generator is performing its primary task superbly, ensuring the power never goes out in the first place.I'm sure if/when I go through the hassle of installing a generator at my house, I'll never lose power. Not that it happens all that often to begin with, due to where I live and the redundancy of the distribution system.
We went from losing power once a month for a few hours to not at all. I'm not sure how much I can contribute to getting a generator and properly wiring it into the house and houw much it had to do with the power company replacing the 30-year old power lines that were literally patched at least twice between each pole.
ebonyandivory wrote: In reply to KyAllroad: Can you elaborate any about the household cutoff? How does one then get power to the panel if not back feeding?
Here is a quick drawing just to give you a functional idea of how it works. The green part of the drawing shows one possible way that it could be; a physical link between one breaker and the other so that only one can be on at any time.
Here is a look at how ours is done. Ours actually is on a subpanel from the shed. The benefit to the above drawing is that you can power everything from the generator as needed. The benefit to the picture below is that you can only power what you need; fridge, furnace, well pump, etc and avoid overloading the generator. The other benefit is that non-essential circuits are still connected to the utility, so when the ceiling fan or alarm clock comes back on, you know that the power is back.
The other option is a completely automated system that senses utility power and activates the genny when needed, and shuts it off when not. But that is $$$
But you can see from ours that its just a simple mechanical link that prevents them both from being on.
In reply to foxtrapper:
My generator, also, has been virtually 100% effective in preventing power outages. I bought it after sitting in the dark for a week back in '08. Since then, I think we've been without power for maybe 3 hours total.
I stumbled upon a half price closeout deal on a generator. I called a friend / electrical engineer, read the specs and asked if it would be sufficient to keep my house alive in case of an emergency. He said that it should do the trick, so I bought it, never opened the box and stuck it in the corner of my shed for about six years.
Fast forward to one Friday morning a few years ago. The same friend texted me. There was a hurricane headed our way. He had the day off. He asked if I had ever wired up the generator.
Nope.
So he came over, we went to the hardware store for some electrical stuff and in a few hours, we were ready to test it out.
Perfect.
The next morning, we lost power and it stayed lost for five days. I couldn't run the air conditioners but I could keep the lights on, the food cold and the well pumping. The power outage was surprisingly tolerable, even a little bit fun.
pkingham wrote: My setup isn't as fancy as a transfer panel but it's safer than plugging into an outlet. There is a sliding plate on the main electrical panel which interlocks between the main breaker and the top right breaker. The main breaker has to be turned off before the plate can be slid out of the way so the top right breaker can be turned on. The top right breaker is wired on the outlet side to a male, 5 pin (I think) 220V twist-lock connector on the outside of the house. The generator gets plugged in there.
There are a good handful of manual transfer switches made this way. My company (Milbank) makes one that can even learn the output of your generator.
One of the cool things we make is an inlet box with a twist lock flanged inlet. It's about the size of an AC pullout fuse, and you can mount it on the exterior of your home. It is hardwired to the transfer switch.
I have a 9500 wat unit that I have used several times. With gas heat and hot water and a gas dryer I can run everything in my house.
I was going to get a 6500 watt unit but got a great deal on the bigger one.
I start mine spring and fall and run it a while. It gets new oil and new gas every spring. I use stabil in all my fuel and swear by it. But after a year I want fresh gas so I drain the tank and burn it in the lawn tractor and keep fresh stuff in the generator. Doing this I have all but eliminated fuel related problems with all my small engine. I may let some of the other motors slide a bit but never the generator. When you need it you need it now so it is worth it to keep it in good working order.
As for a hook up. Well I need to improve on it.
Back in '08 we had a pretty miserable ice storm here. Trees destroyed, power out for tens of thousands, the whole deal. I bought (at great expense and effort) an 8500 watt genny and fat cable to feed the house. I strategically removed the electric meter from it's mount and used big jumper cable style clips to run juice to the house. No heat pump but everything else in the house ran and we hunkered down in the basement with a space heater.
The thing (Briggs and Stratton 12 horse) was painfully loud. I've since sold it (yay divorce) and if I ever feel the need for another one I'll probably just get the biggest inverter they make and run it off the Suburban.
ebonyandivory wrote: In reply to Tom_Spangler: I definitely wasn't planning on another $300 though
I could help you install the transfer system. I'm licensed, and work on generators for a living. I know we live close to each other, so let me know if you want some help. I installed a 6 circuit transfer panel in my house, and it works great with my 5500 watt generator.
In reply to Mazdax605:
Wow, that's an amazing offer! I'll keep it in mind for sure! (I do have an extremely hard time with taking help though. What if I somehow save your life first then I'll feel better about the assistance?!)
The crappy part is that our panel is mounted in the front of the house and inside the house, the panel is boxed in with little louvered doors (it's my parents living space) to hide it.
There's not much room if any (iirc) to mount even a small panel next to it.
I'll take a picture and maybe I don't know enough about alternative mounting methods etc.
I think this is what you guys are looking for
In reply to ebonyandivory:
Yeah... that does make it more difficult. My panel is in the basement and exposed, so rewiring isn't too difficult.
In reply to Zomby Woof:
How'd you know I needed a frilly, white nightgown?
If the main breaker isn't off your relatively puny generator will try power up the other 4 or 5 houses on the street circuit. This will immediately pop the circuit breakers on the generator.
In reply to ebonyandivory:
Because we all need one, and I know you don't already have one.
In reply to Zomby Woof:
Can argue with that! But if you're thinking of a Christmas present, I could really use one that shows more leg.
In reply to Chas_H:
I'm sure the neighbors would appreciate the though!
Here's the lockout that I have installed in my panel.
You'll need to log in to post.
