roninsoldier83 said:
Keith Tanner said:
The NB rear subframe has identical geometry. The front subframe has the lower control arms moved back slightly and the steering arm moved about 1/4". It's nothing dramatic, I would think the weight would have more of an effect. There's also the extra travel that came from basically improved bumpstop design, but that's fixable under "coilover" :)
I have no reason to doubt Mazda's numbers, but you have to make sure you're comparing equal specs. For example, I think 1999 was the only year the base NB came with manual steering which would be a bit lighter. When in doubt for weight numbers, I either go to my second book or the factory brochures - the latter is where the numbers for the book came from. I don't know the source of what's posted randomly on Miata.net - but IIRC the base 96 should be lighter than the base 95 as some bracing got removed. That makes me doubt the weights.
Keith, you are a wealth of information, sir. Thank you!
And I agree 100% on comparing equal specs; which is tough to do. A base 1999 Sport with no AC or PS isn't really comparable to a loaded up car. Unfortunately, even looking at the brochures, I'm unsure of which trims specifically they're talking about in certain model years.
I know the bracing added weight and was changed over the years... I'm sure safety features likely did as well... along with the bigger brakes, bigger wheels, 6MT transmission, etc. Makes it tough to tell if the published weights give an accurate picture of what you're likely to see in certain model years. I feel like some of the weight might be useful- like the ABS, or if the 6MT has better ratios for certain tracks, or the bigger brakes on certain tracks, or the extra chassis stiffening braces... some of it seems like it's irrelevant- like the bigger 16" wheels on the later cars that are just going to get tossed anyway; they add weight stock vs stock, but when the car ends up with 15x9's anyway, it won't really matter.
I appreciate all the insight and feedback. Decisions, decisions.
Another thing to be careful of when looking at curb weights is that different countries have different specs for what is "curb weight". IIRC the US requires that it be of the vehicle in the configuration that is most commonly sold and with the tank filled to a particular level (half full or something, I forget what), while Europe has different optional equipment requirements and has a fixed weight delta to compensate for fuel, rather than it depending on the tank size. This is a part of the reason why things like the Alfa 4C are "so much lighter" in Europe.
SCCA autocrossers have spent years obsessing over Miata power/weight, and IIRC the low-option 99s are generally considered the winner there (not counting Mazdaspeed or the 03 Club Sport). Do the tuner rules let you convert your car to the spec of a different submodel? That is, if you buy a PEP or LP 99, can you take out the power windows and locks, delete the AC and maybe power steering (would need to source a manual rack), and call it a "Sport"?
I don't think the NA ABS is useful in a competitive track environment outside of a rain day. I have used NB2 ABS, and while it's a lot better it's still prone to doing some unexpected things if you're not really careful with it ("ice mode"). Personally I would not prioritize it for a time trial car unless you run somewhere that it rains a lot and even then I suspect the FWD Hondas in the class will win those days. If you're going to also run the car in a budget endurance series like Lucky Dog, that might be a different story.
I suspect the 6MT would be nice to have, but they aren't all that common in the earlier NBs and the later ones they're paired with the TF diff instead of the Torsen, which people don't seem to like as much.
Probably the biggest single option as far as lap time goes is a hard top.
