What’s happening with Jaguar?

In reply to boulder_dweeb :

Nah, he spouts off stuff like it's gospel. I want to know the answer. 

frenchyd said:

You have no idea of what you are talking about.  ........

Frenchy, you are literally telling a guy who was there, working on the program, who knew all the people involved in period, he doesn't' know what he's talking about!

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

You have no idea of what you are talking about.  ........

Frenchy, you are literally telling a guy who was there, working on the program, who knew all the people involved in period, he doesn't' know what he's talking about!

And you are surprised by this?

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) : (And Alfadriver)

I am fascinated to hear your insider knowledge of Jaguar. There are many parallels to the DaimlerChrysler period of time. So much rumor overwhelms actual knowledge from people there. Just in this thread I see:

• Chrysler needed modern key technology, it has some, but to proceed with the planned growth into the EU we needed EU spec security and keys and negotiating a contract as such a small automaker was going to be very pricey, so one of the merger goals was to get better contract terms (not better tech) on keys for all Chrysler product to meet different global security specs. 
• Mercedes similarly got stuck into a contract with batteries just like Chrysler, the merger allowed both to exit/renegotiate those contracts and seek cheaper bids for the overall whole. 
• MB had major issues with windshield installation failure rate. They essentially used the merger to access Chrysler IP for windshield install robot cell designs. One of those cell designs was mine. One simple feature of the windshield cells I worked on was that Chrysler accepted that despite all the best robots and GD&T from body carrier to cell positioner that the car may enter the cell outside what should be possible so the cell was designed to handle that deviation. But the MB guys never seemed to accept that. So by the time the merger busted they reported still had the same failure rates. Culture beat science and kept them in a poor quality position. 
• Like Jaguar, the Chrysler brand has no future, they can't sell on luxury cred anymore, and their racing/performance/technology edge is long forgotten, leadership failed to ever stake a position for them. I would have put them right were Mazda seems to be targeting right now. But now it is too late I think as they gave JEEP the high end SUVs and seem committed to a family brand core strategy for Chrysler (minivans/Prius fighter/CUVs)
• Poor merger messups. The First modern CUV in the world, the 2003-2007 Chrylser Pacifica was a wonderful, eye opening, sporty CUV. Then it was paused in order to make is a portly sofa on wheels with an ugly after the fact elongated nose. Man I wish everyone got to see and drive the pre production versions we had before the pause. My understanding was that MB didn't want it to complete with their supposed low cost M class or upscaled A class. Both of which never happened!!!!GRRRR.

Jaguar never got a vision. They could have been positioned within Ford to offer halo/covershot cars. All aluminum, First to performance EV, limited edition sports cars. Just throw away the concept of affordable. Ford/Mercury are affordable Jaguar is beautiful/ ugly/ and avant gard. Let Jaguar be crazy and Aston Martin be stable luxury. Oh well they are just a name plate now. 

Crazy versus stable as I mentioned above would be like Lamborgini and Audi. It works!

Another thread that delivers the goods!

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

You have no idea of what you are talking about.  ........

Frenchy, you are literally telling a guy who was there, working on the program, who knew all the people involved in period, he doesn't' know what he's talking about!

But he read a book about it so he obviously knows more than you. 

z31maniac said:

Another thread that delivers the goods!

I can't believe I just read through the whole damn thing.  

Well it figures.  I waited a long time to buy a Jaguar.  I own a very nice '04 XJ8.   It's truly a nice car, but as the saying goes about meeting your heroes.   Finally own one, and now it's going the way of the dinosaur, figures.

PS: When one's head is set in granite, it's difficult to crack open. And as the thread ender that is I, so completes this one.

spitfirebill said:

z31maniac said:

Another thread that delivers the goods!

I can't believe I just read through the whole damn thing.  

I'm trying to find a certain posters inane comments humorous now, instead of infuriating. I actually took a break from the forum last year for like 4-5 months because it annoyed me so much. I don't understand why someone who was banned, creates another account, and comes back and does the same stuff hasn't been banned again. 

Motion to ban frenchyd. Vote with the like buttons on this comment.

mblommel said:

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

You have no idea of what you are talking about.  ........

Frenchy, you are literally telling a guy who was there, working on the program, who knew all the people involved in period, he doesn't' know what he's talking about!

But he read a book about it so he obviously knows more than you. 

Nah but he stayed at a holiday inn express last night 

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Don't ignore the question, please enlighten us. When did Ford own SAAB?

I suspect he conflated Volvo and SAAB, not the most important part of the post :)

Keith Tanner said:

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Don't ignore the question, please enlighten us. When did Ford own SAAB?

I suspect he conflated Volvo and SAAB, not the most important part of the post :)

Easy to conflate since Volvo went to front wheel drive, innit?

In reply to BoxheadTim :

All those Swedish car manufacturers look the same :)

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

I think if Jag could take a bunch of the Rivian party tricks and package them into a striking SUV and give it model S acceleration, they'd be relevant again.

So basically a rebodied R1S :) With a skateboard architecture, that's actually plausible. Set up a deal for Rivian to sell skateboards to Jaguar, Jag pounds out some sexy bodies for it. That has some actual potential.

Acceleration is such a commodity in the EV world I think it's going to become less of a factor in purchasing.

Keith Tanner said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

I think if Jag could take a bunch of the Rivian party tricks and package them into a striking SUV and give it model S acceleration, they'd be relevant again.

So basically a rebodied R1S :) With a skateboard architecture, that's actually plausible. Set up a deal for Rivian to sell skateboards to Jaguar, Jag pounds out some sexy bodies for it. That has some actual potential.

Acceleration is such a commodity in the EV world I think it's going to become less of a factor in purchasing.

Going back to being a coachbuilder? That could be interesting.

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Keith Tanner said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

I think if Jag could take a bunch of the Rivian party tricks and package them into a striking SUV and give it model S acceleration, they'd be relevant again.

So basically a rebodied R1S :) With a skateboard architecture, that's actually plausible. Set up a deal for Rivian to sell skateboards to Jaguar, Jag pounds out some sexy bodies for it. That has some actual potential.

Acceleration is such a commodity in the EV world I think it's going to become less of a factor in purchasing.

Going back to being a coachbuilder? That could be interesting.

I am hoping the skateboard will bring back the coachbuilders. They'll still have to deal with crash testing, but at least emissions are no longer a factor and with the drivetrain down low I'm hoping it's easier to deal with crumple zones and the like. It would be fun to see a spike in creative cars that don't have the overhead of a complete platform. Kinda like how the Golf made the New Beetle and Audi TT (and many others) possible. 

maschinenbau said:

Motion to ban frenchyd. Vote with the like buttons on this comment.

This is too entertaining for a ban.

Keith Tanner said:

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Keith Tanner said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

I think if Jag could take a bunch of the Rivian party tricks and package them into a striking SUV and give it model S acceleration, they'd be relevant again.

So basically a rebodied R1S :) With a skateboard architecture, that's actually plausible. Set up a deal for Rivian to sell skateboards to Jaguar, Jag pounds out some sexy bodies for it. That has some actual potential.

Acceleration is such a commodity in the EV world I think it's going to become less of a factor in purchasing.

Going back to being a coachbuilder? That could be interesting.

I am hoping the skateboard will bring back the coachbuilders. They'll still have to deal with crash testing, but at least emissions are no longer a factor and with the drivetrain down low I'm hoping it's easier to deal with crumple zones and the like. It would be fun to see a spike in creative cars that don't have the overhead of a complete platform. Kinda like how the Golf made the New Beetle and Audi TT (and many others) possible. 

There are (or used to be) some outs for really low volume builders and for rather high gross weight ratings. Could a new age of coach building be upon us?

In reply to BAMF :

I don't see how it's possible. Just the other day I was watching Gordon Murray on Harry's Garage talk about the crash testing they had to do in order to get the T.33 sold in the US market. He claimed they had to crash 12 cars. TWELVE, for a run of 100 cars. 

In reply to mblommel :

If your GVWR is over 8500lbs, then you don't have to do any crash testing. It wouldn't be hard to get an EV truck/SUV with a big battery over that limit.

It is possible but tricky. Tesla was able to make the roadster mostly because they could adopt most of the safety testing approvals from Lotus. I am not sure if those waivers and allowances have been sealed up to prevent a similar coach builder type situation occurring again. It would be best to describe the new coachbuilders as reskin makers.

Jaguar could have a future if someone wanted to rebuild the image of the brand but I figure if I constantly forget they still exist then most younger people probably don't even know they make cars. Probably think they are just a dealer name like Main Street Cars or Friendly's Automall.