Indy-Guy said:Curtis73 said:Indy-Guy said:Jaaaaag XJR makes a really nice Grand Touring sedan. Of course I'm biased, but there are at least four active GRMers who own one.
Yasss. I'm still shopping for the right one.
this Jaaag is near you, and will probably go cheap!
For sale on Copart in NJ with this "Secondary Damage: BIOHAZARD/CHEMICAL" in the listing.Did Tony Soprano bump the previous owner off in it? 
I have no idea how we got three pages in and ZERO mentions of the new Taycan. ZERO. MENTIONS. OF. THE. NEW. TAYCAN.
Did noone read the GRM article on how quickly it filled up after 18 miles on the interstate with Porsche tech support at the station?
E39 M5, G8 GXP, Chevy SS. The E39 is still the king of the sport sedan IMO and the G8/SS only sought to improve on that, using the E39 as the benchmark. What you sacrifice in interior quality with the Holdens, you get back in reliability. All can hoon or cruise effortlessly with the best of them. While also holding four adults.
I've been DD'ing a ratty '03 M5 for over a year, it's been life-changing.
Curtis73 said:yupididit said:Jordan Rimpela said:It's long been the P71. I don't recommend, however.
I never understood why these were the sedan answer.
If I were going for an "answer" sedan, I'd pick the P71 over the Bimmer if only because I can't afford $400 radiators and VANOS repairs.
FWIW, plenty of us are running $100 ebay aluminum radiators on e30/e36s with no issues.
FWIW, VANOS repairs are surprisingly inexpensive and easy if you DIY. There are kits out there Anything is expensive if you have the dealer do it.....
Also, not sure why nobody has mentioned the WRX (well, at least I didn't see any)(
- fast and easily made faster
- handle reasonably well (and much better with a few tweaks)
- 4 doors
- Widely available with a 5MT (or 6MT)
- 08+ have enough back seat room for adults to sit comfortably for long distances
- AWD
- Pretty good at any type of motorsports in stock form
- Fairly inexpensive depending on which one you are looking for
- Huge aftermarket, OEM parts are average-price
yupididit said:In reply to STM317 :
BMW's E38 740 should the 4 door answer to be honest!
Maybe so. They certainly look great. But parts are relatively expensive, and there aren't a ton of 20-25 year old BMWs rolling around to scavenge from. And tech from flagship German Q ships doesn't tend to age very well from a GRM, DIY perspective.
Like Gumby alluded to, Miata is 'The Answer' when the question is "What cheap, reliable sports car to do sports car stuff?"
Astro van is probably 'The Answer' to "What van can do truck stuff?"
P71 became 'The Answer' when the question was "what cheap, reliable sedan to do sedan stuff?"
Thats a different question than "What's the sportiest, most Miata-like sedan?". We all assume that the question is "What's the sportiest, most Miata-like sedan?" Because we like sporty things. But that doesn't really mean that a Panther isn't 'The Answer' if the question is really "What cheap, reliable sedan to do sedan things?" If a person wants to shred some kerbs, it's the wrong choice. If they want to put a bunch of people and stuff into it, and add tons of miles while neglecting the hell out of it (normal sedan use), then it's a pretty solid contender.
I would add the Volvo 850 to that list if FWD is not too big a liability. An added bonus is that it was availible with a 5 speed manual from the factory
For me it would be a G35. I've driven pretty much everything and even done the 'dreaded' chain tensioners on a cheap XJR and cruised that around for a while (would still like to try a 'worse' i-6 one though!!). Manual, rpm and sound take slight precedence for me over outright performance in the $2000 sedan segment when none of them feel as thrilling as a dodge aries i built for the Challenge over a decade ago. I do like luxury sedans but the BTDT thing sort of limits my 'new to me' options at this point. One of the downsides of being a mechanic is you end up meeting a lot of heroes, lol. I've never owned a G35. It's one of the few cheap things i'm interested in that already performs mostly the way i want it to without me having to do much to it to get it there.
Also, Curtis send money, will snag and store for you:
First gen Acura TSX if modest size and FWD are OK.
In reply to Vigo :
The G35 is remarkably easy to work on. It's well protected against rust and none of the fasteners are particularly tough to get off, and I can't think of a job that's painful on them - maybe a transmission rebuild?
Buick Regal with the 3800 V6. Dirt cheap, anvil strong once the intake manifold gaskets and coolant elbows are changed, plenty of go fast parts, come in normally aspirated and supercharged versions, plentiful and cheap parts, flys under the radar. Same could be said of the LeSabre, LaCrosse, and Park Avenue, but they’re a bit heavier.
Vigo said:Also, Curtis send money, will snag and store for you:
Oop!
STM317 said:yupididit said:In reply to STM317 :
BMW's E38 740 should the 4 door answer to be honest!
Maybe so. They certainly look great. But parts are relatively expensive, and there aren't a ton of 20-25 year old BMWs rolling around to scavenge from. And tech from flagship German Q ships doesn't tend to age very well from a GRM, DIY perspective.
Like Gumby alluded to, Miata is 'The Answer' when the question is "What cheap, reliable sports car to do sports car stuff?"
Astro van is probably 'The Answer' to "What van can do truck stuff?"
P71 became 'The Answer' when the question was "what cheap, reliable sedan to do sedan stuff?"
Thats a different question than "What's the sportiest, most Miata-like sedan?". We all assume that the question is "What's the sportiest, most Miata-like sedan?" Because we like sporty things. But that doesn't really mean that a Panther isn't 'The Answer' if the question is really "What cheap, reliable sedan to do sedan things?" If a person wants to shred some kerbs, it's the wrong choice. If they want to put a bunch of people and stuff into it, and add tons of miles while neglecting the hell out of it (normal sedan use), then it's a pretty solid contender.
Cheap reliable sedan to do sedan things? LS400!
In reply to tremm :
Cheap to buy. Cheap to maintain. Cheap consumables. Plentiful parts (new and used) Easy to work on. Do sedan things like eat up highway miles, and seat at least 5 people in relative comfort.
We seem to be confusing sporty as a requirement. That's not a sedan thing, that's a sports car thing. You don't expect the Astro van to be sporty, do you?
Vigo said:For me it would be a G35.
Still at the top of my 'best cars I've owned' list and I find myself searching for them online from time to time - if I came across a low mileage sport or early 'doggie door' in a cool color, I probably couldn't resist picking it up.
Surprised to see no mention of the WRX? Not sedany enough?
Appleseed said:In reply to tremm :
Cheap to buy. Cheap to maintain. Cheap consumables. Plentiful parts (new and used) Easy to work on. Do sedan things like eat up highway miles, and seat at least 5 people in relative comfort.
We seem to be confusing sporty as a requirement. That's not a sedan thing, that's a sports car thing. You don't expect the Astro van to be sporty, do you?
Miata is the answer because it does a lot of things really well, including almost all forms of motorsports. I think its reasonable to expect the answer for Sedans to do the same. But seat 4 and have a roof.
I don't get the fascination with the P71. It might not be a bad option if you only have $400 to spend and don't do the math on fuel costs. Compare it to the Ford Five Hundred/Taurus as an obvious direct competitor. It's RWD, but I'm not sure that matters much in a non-sporting vehicle. The P71 will likely hold up well to core component wear because it was built to a commercial standard, but that's about it. Everything else about the P71 is worse. Reliability aside, I think the 300/Charger are much more compelling in the large sedan category, although I believe the initial reliability has improved due to selling the same basic design for 16+ years.
ProDarwin said:Appleseed said:In reply to tremm :
Cheap to buy. Cheap to maintain. Cheap consumables. Plentiful parts (new and used) Easy to work on. Do sedan things like eat up highway miles, and seat at least 5 people in relative comfort.
We seem to be confusing sporty as a requirement. That's not a sedan thing, that's a sports car thing. You don't expect the Astro van to be sporty, do you?
Miata is the answer because it does a lot of things really well, including almost all forms of motorsports. I think its reasonable to expect the answer for Sedans to do the same. But seat 4 and have a roof.
Agreed. The "M" in GRM stands for Motorsports, after all.
And why shouldn't I expect a sedan to be sporty? It's clearly possible, lots of them are.
yupididit said:Vigo said:Also, Curtis send money, will snag and store for you:
Oop!
Curtis, Don't let another one slip away. This looks like a good deal at $2500 asking price.
I've always considered the E39 530i to be the "Answer" in sedan form, especially now that junkyards are starting to be filled with E39s and there's still massive support for them in the aftermarket part community, thereby making DIY maintenance pretty cheap.
They're not as slow as it's 525i or 528i brethern while being much more reliable than it's 540i v8 big brother. The looks of them are still reminiscent of classic BMW and the car is relatively "dumb" when compared to the Bangle and beyond Bimmers, thereby making any engine swaps a tad bit easier if you so chose.
So we have:
1) Low buy-in (20ish year old BMW)
2) Cheap maintenance (if DIY)
3) Available as a manual
4) Sporty
5) Does sedan things
6) Can seat 5
Vigo said:Also, Curtis send money, will snag and store for you:
Hmmmm. Message sent to seller.
In reply to Curtis73 :
Messaged you.
84FSP said:Gen 1 V? I might be biased...
Yep. Pick your favorite flavor of piece of E36 M3 BMW alphabet soup. We'll wax that ass, then give you a ride to the parts store where they won't have your parts.
Soooooo......
Over three pages deep into the proposed question, and the only thing we can all agree on is that there isn't a single "Answer" to the Sedan question. Lots of great suggestions though. The surprising one that I keep thinking about is the G35 sedan with a manual transmission. (I've personally sworn off BMW ownership)
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