In reply to Appleseed :
Rust holes are a sign of actual use here in the salt belt. Not much you can do but prolong the inevitable if you're going to drive something year round, and most cars we consider classic or collectible now were just cars when they were new
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Appleseed :
Rust holes are a sign of actual use here in the salt belt. Not much you can do but prolong the inevitable if you're going to drive something year round, and most cars we consider classic or collectible now were just cars when they were new
Our '85 Toyota Celica had a whole lot of "patina holes" after a few years of normal use in Illinois.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Scuse me, while me while I rust STi.
In reply to j_tso :
Or there's the absurdity of the Singer Porsches. Some people do have too much money.
BG chassis is always the relative alternative to the answer.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to MrFancypants :
This whole patina thing isn't about using it and enjoying it- it's that somehow having a patina adds value to the car as it sits.
As if years of neglect in a barn makes a car special and more valuable.
Or years and years of sun bleaching makes it more valuable.
Which I see as very different than an original car, loved and regularly used, with a lot of miles on it- but all original.
'scuse me while I rust the hood on my Jetta
As long as it's appied to the car with love...
To each his own, but I won't buy an forotten and neglected car for more money than a decent one is worth, that's for sure.
You can equate this to things like gentrifying a neighborhood or certain other kinds of trendy behavior. There are always people who, because of a few things - individualism, creativity... lack of money... (Usually all of those and more) see the possibilities and beauty in things that the vast majority of people don't. These people are the artists and weirdos and eccentrics of society. (I'm sure there is a car culture version of this type of person) And rather than cover it up or "improve" it they celebrate it as it is.
Sooner or later a few astute people with money notice what these people are doing and deliberately set out to pay hommage to it, in their way. Slowly the masses see what's going on and copy as well, but usually they do so because it's trendy, not really because of an authentic appreciation. At some point it becomes a distorted reflection of itself and the trend collapses.
Even the use of the word "patina" is trendy. Patina used to apply to the oxidation of copper and brass. Then some clever person decided to use it to describe some well-worn object they saw. Others picked up on that. Now people use it for anything with a little dust and a few scratches on it.
Thew high end market is not chasing patina. It is chasing originality. Just look at what some of the vintage Porsche race cars are bringing in as raced condition.
The middle market is chasing trends and Patina will die out. Just like flat black will and just like in some ways over restored riddler cars will as well.
The bottom end is just rust with better marketing.
There's a fine line between "Patina" and "Pile of Rusty Crap". Both my project vehicles are drunkenly stumbling on that line every day.
I dig actual patina and love "barn finds", not the fake, manufactured BS. People right now will pay a severe premium for originality, and sometimes that comes with patina and rust. One thing I really love is the new trend of people buying old, terrible trash that hasn't run in years, getting it running, and driving it home. There are a few YouTube channels that cater to that, and I find it fascinating.
In reply to wearymicrobe :
As long as people have stolen pickup cabs/beds to swap onto their trucks, flat black (and camo) will never die.
I was done when I heard someone, not jokingly, refer to an exhaust leak as, “mechanical patina.” I think it was in a YouTube video.
No, exhaust is just broken.
I do sometimes like the way faded paint looks on an old car.
IMO "patina" cars look like crap unless it's some kind of totally-original paint on a well-used car (not a rusty barn find that's clearcoated, or even worse the "man made patina"
Then again, I also don't get the people who spend $20k making their paint so perfect they're afraid to even drive the car. ESPECIALLY people with "off-roaded-out" vehicles with perfect paint lol...
I'd rather have a $500 home-garage paint job that looks good from 10 feet and has a few scuffs and scratches here and there from use. Basically, my Porsche. Paint is there to keep the metal from rusting, basically. Beyond that as long as it looks decent at a glance, that's good enough for me.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to wearymicrobe :
As long as people have stolen pickup cabs/beds to swap onto their trucks, flat black (and camo) will never die.
People still paint mini trucks in tribal. The folly of man, or a sucker born every second. Not sure which applies here.
I like the patina look, if it is done right. A -50s or -60s car with the paint burned off by the sun and a light layer of surface rust here and there can look really cool - And yes, I'd clear coat it. A car with rotten wheel arches and holes in the floor is not cool, it is just rusty.
Just as there is beauty in well-engineered mechanical components, there is a certain beauty in a machine that has aged naturally from use (not abuse) and the elements. In a sort of "Function before form" kind of way.
Also: Anyone with the cash can go and buy a restored car... but few can show up with their grandfathers car and say "I'm keeping it looking just the same as when he lived". It's still running strong, it has been maintained, loved and cared for, but also used - respect!
The problem over here is the same as in the rust belt area: The cars don't rust or age in a romantic and elegant kind of way, at all. We get rust in the sills and wheel arches, subframes, fenders, the bottom of the doors and so on. The sun is not strong enough to burn away the clear coat, so the roofs, bonnet and quarters stay good, while the car rot from underneath: very, very unsexy.
Run watcha brung.
In other words, drive what you have rather than look at what you are not.
Clean it, tune it, drive it, enjoy it.
It's also like art to many. There are many different types of patina, whether it is natural or man made or modified or a combination of all the above.
I’m 70/30 where it come to patina Most of the time I think it looks somewhere between pretty good and totally bad ass, but sometimes it’s downright hideous. I can also honestly admit I’m 70/30 about shiny paint jobs too, so I guess it’s totally subjective.
After years of driving sketchy projects, these days it matters more to me if my car is mechanical sound and functional first. I’d have a shiny paint job if the budget allowed, but its not a requirement.
Patina as a trend is a purely cosmetic thing. While I really love an unrestored car that wears it's years well leaving something looking like crap to be part of the latest trend isn't the same thing.
I've owned a restored car and it was a giant PITA, frankly. Keeping it mint and antiseptically clean at all times plus the constant worry that something would befall it (and in my case, a falling clothes tree in the garage did) sucked a lot of fun out of the ownership experience.
I think Freiburger has it right, though living in California and having access to the American west for cars is much different than the garbage I encounter where I live. I wrote about this on my blog awhile ago: Is Roadkill Saving The Old Car Hobby?
When I had my '65 F100 some of the most appealing aspects of that truck (repainted exterior once in it's life) was the worn paint on the steering wheel and driver door interior. It told a story. Like others have mentioned however is that I couldn't tolerate the rust holes. The expense of fixing them (roof gutters) or replacing parts (hood) with the accompanying necessity of painting caused me to eventually sell it. If it had just been worn paint it wouldn't have grated on me.
These days I'm seeking out the no-rust-through example of a car or truck but don't care if the paint is shiny or not. I like the freedom of having something that it won't matter if someone's jacket zipper scratches it. A good ten foot, amateur level repaint is also okay provided it isn't hiding sins. One thing I can't abide though is a flat black primer paint job. That has always screamed "I did all the body work but was too cheap to finish it with actual paint".
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to MrFancypants :
This whole patina thing isn't about using it and enjoying it- it's that somehow having a patina adds value to the car as it sits.
As if years of neglect in a barn makes a car special and more valuable.
Or years and years of sun bleaching makes it more valuable.
Which I see as very different than an original car, loved and regularly used, with a lot of miles on it- but all original.
I agree. I was thinking that the whole patina thing had gone away and died in a corner of a barn but I guess I was wrong. Sounds like it is alive and well. In my opinion rust in any form does not add value to anything. Then again I have lived in the rust belt for a long time so I have a bit of a bias when it comes to rust.
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